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Turn and draw


Flexmoney

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This has been covered in other threads.  But, is often hard to find.  Since it is a skill, I thought I would give it it's own thread.

We should likely use the El Prez as the basis for the exercise, since we all see it so often.

I'll post my turn and draw shortly.  

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OK...I am right handed, so reverse everything if you are a lefty.

I start out with both toes touching the back of the box (as presribed in the stage procedures).  I set up with both feet pretty tight, in the back right corner (left corner when I am facing the 180).

-  My weight is on the left leg, the right leg is just kinda loose...ready to move.

-  On the beep, my strong hand goes to my gun, my head snaps around.  I feel it is important to get the eyes on the target as soon as possible...the body follows the eyes.  I think that if you are focused anything else, then your turn won't be crisp and to the target.

-  On the turn, my right foot, it drops back and turns.  My right foot only moves once...it needs to land in the final shooting position.

If you get the head on target quickly and the feet only move once...then you don't have to rush.

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Quote: from Flexmoney on 3:41 pm on Oct. 16, 2002

-  On the turn, my right foot, it drops back and turns.  My right foot only moves once...it needs to land in the final shooting position.


Flex, I'm not sure what you mean by this but I imagine you're using the left leg as pivot point?

Funny, last night I was going through the different ways to turn and the one that felt the most comfortable was using my strong-side leg as pivot turning clockwise.  However, without a timer, I could not reliably tell w/c one was fastest.

Oh, and BTW, the actual draw isn't done until you've come past the 90-degree turn, right? Thanks.

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eh. i think you mis-understood, i think flex and i turn the same way. not positive.

i start same spot DUH. and shift my weight on my right foot to the heal, turn my leg, then pivot on the right foot.left foot comes around.

as to the draw, this is a timing/body dynamics issue. if you draw the way i do, hand goes to the gun as your foot starts moving. by the time your half way round (just past the 180 the gun is no longer in the holster, hard to visualize, but not endangering anyone. just as my left food plants i'm driving the gun to T1 weight hits, bang, first shot.

hope that helps.

best on el prez is like 1.20 draw, which is about .12 slower than my normal draw at 10 yards. yes, i have a slow draw.... this is also from a production rig.... i REAALLLLY want my 012 to come in, damn back orders.

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During the turn and draw, only my left foot moves. My right foot is just set as a pivot point. As soon as I hear the beep my left foot swings around, during that I'm getting my hand on the gun. When I pass the 180, my head aligns itself to the target I want to index to, while pulling the gun out. Usually I can get just under a second with this at 10 yards.

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Last months we give the El Prez a more important place (again) i your training routine.

Looks i do the El Prez turn in the same way as smoney

Got my fasted draw in 1.22 but consistent 1.45

Thats for me 0.10 slower than consistent normal draw at 10 yards.

(glock35 from ghostholster)

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I am not doing any pivot movements for now.  I used to think that was the best way to go (it still may be).  I ran into problems with the box size and room for my feet (and the pivot).

I am doing a drop-step and turn.  My weak side foot starts in the corner of the box.  It is the leg I drive off of.  My strong side foot has little weight on it.  At the buzzer, I drop the strong side foot back, and turn it to the target.  My strong side foot lands in the shooting position, my weight is shifted to that strong side.  At this time (my head has been around already and my hand has been on the gun) I present the gun and set my weak side foot down (just like I am coming into a shooting position on a stage with movement).

Smooth and easily repeatable.

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"During the turn and draw, only my left foot moves. My right foot is just set as a pivot point. As soon as I hear the beep my left foot swings around, during that I'm getting my hand on the gun. When I pass the 180, my head aligns itself to the target I want to index to, while pulling the gun out. Usually I can get just under a second with this at 10 yards."

Unless I'm missing something here, you can't use that technique on the El Prez the way the classifier description is now written. You used to be able to, but now they've changed it so you've got to have your toes against the front of the box which blocks the left foot from simply swinging around as you pivot on the right. Otherwise, you're right, that would be the fastest way to do it.

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As far as I know, theres nothing that says you can't swing your leg outside of the box as long as all the shooting is done from inside and if that is a rule, I've never been nailed on it. You're right though, on an El Prez, I have to do it a bit different and pivot on the heel of my right foot instead of on my toes.

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I have been using a reverse pivot (basketball term) like Flex$. I had not even thought of using the strong side leg as a pivot and throwing my weakside leg around. It seems to have some potential as I dry shoot it. Will try at range with timer. Thanks.

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THanks Guys,

I have been playing (VERY Little) with inside pivots (turning into the tgt instead of away from it) a little but see very little difference in times!  BTW my BEST draws from a turn are at least .25 slower than my avg draw facing the tgt. (1.1 - 1.2 IDPA style) Any tips or specifics I should be looking at?

I have trouble practicing the El Pres, it KILLS my knees.

Am I doing something wrong?  I generally piviot on my toes or balls of my feet so hearing that there is another way to do it is great!  Maybe I can get out of the mid to high 7s now!

Keep it coming.

Larry P

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A few of us talked about this at the range today.  (steel match was rained out).

I would call my turn more of a step (actually two) than a pivot.  In fact, we were showing another shooter the technique...he was almost digging a hole in the ground (he was pivoting hard).  The soft step method sure seemed smoother.

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  • 5 months later...

This El Prez topic's been asleep for 5 months, but I woke up one already so what the heck. <_< My right-handed $.02 worth:

First, find the topic that says the fastest way to move is to put weight on one foot, and then PICK UP THAT FOOT FIRST. You start falling. Falling is fast. This is a turning variation, but still involves choosing which spot you want to fall on.

Before buzzer, feet near the left corner, about 8-12" apart. Weight is mostly on right heel, a little on the left toes. Knees bent.

At buzzer, pivot on right heel and left toe, enough to get feet turned around 135-180 degrees. Your left toes are now behind & to the right of your right heel, possibly brushing the box. While you were doing this your hands came down to establish your grip, still in the holster. You're looking at the A-zone of the 1st target. Didn't need to whip the head around.

Next, you fall forward with the left foot and put more than half your weight on it. While you were doing this, your hands drew the gun and presented it to the target. Your knees stayed bent the entire time.

My best 1st shot times are: Dry-fire .90 sec, Live-fire 1.1 sec, at 10 yards. Glock 35 from Hellweg K-Holster. Tick slower with my open gun.

Eric Nielsen

A-28026

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My turn and draw isn't the greatest, but it works. When I started shooting I had no idea how to turn and draw so I simply adopted what Brian describes in his book. I am not a very athletic person and Brian's method works for me because it is simple, natural, and intuitive. I don't know if better methods exist and perhaps I should examine alternatives. For now, I just practice and let my body "sort" itself out without a bunch of mental clutter. I admit that I don't have those awesome draws like some of you mention, but I manage to do OK.

While I recognize that it is very important to find an effective way to turn, my biggest breakthrough came when I stopped the constant experimenting, stressing, and microanalyzing (is that a word?) and just started turning my big ass around and got on with the shooting, lol.

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"While I recognize that it is very important to find an effective way to turn, my biggest breakthrough came when I stopped the constant experimenting, stressing, and microanalyzing (is that a word?) and just started turning my big ass around and got on with the shooting, lol."

Me too.

I whip the head to the target (s) and get the hand on the gun ASAP, the rest sorts itself out. I used to have tremendous tension trying to get the perfect turn. Now I just draw and shoot the targets. It may not be optimal, but works and is usually only .1 slower than freestyle draws.

SA

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If you don't want to become obsessed with finding the perfect method to turn, it is probably better to do it like Ron and Steve, just turn your big butt around fast as you can and get on with it. There aren't many who are are going to do it in 3.96 anyway, so the tenth you save on the optimum turn really means little.

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Especially as that 0.1 second is worth at most one and a half points on an El-Prez.

I don't want to be all wound up about getting my feet just right when I'm on the line.

I think I'll go work on accuracy some more. <_<

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  • 7 years later...

As far as I know, theres nothing that says you can't swing your leg outside of the box as long as all the shooting is done from inside and if that is a rule, I've never been nailed on it. You're right though, on an El Prez, I have to do it a bit different and pivot on the heel of my right foot instead of on my toes.

I'm pulling up an old one here...working my way around through basic skills :)

Jake, do you have an even amount of knee bend left and right, and how is your weight balanced? Working on this it seems like I want to bend my right knee just a little more, and put more weight on it since it's my pivot. It would seem that if you start set that way, it's one less thing to do (weight shift) when the buzzer goes off. Thoughts?

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I don't turn and draw like that anymore. I load my left leg, then at the beep step with my right foot first, then left.

What is quoted is one of the reasons I stopped doing the pivot.

Thanks. I was running it both ways and not finding a big difference on the timer and figured I'd see if I was missing something :)

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Are you guys actually "worried" about breaking the 180 when drawing? Or, is your foot work fast enough where breaking the 180 is nearly impossible? I am loading on my left leg too but it seems to me that if my footwork is right, I can't break the 180. I am going to have to video it though to make sure before turning it loose at a match.

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Are you guys actually "worried" about breaking the 180 when drawing? Or, is your foot work fast enough where breaking the 180 is nearly impossible? I am loading on my left leg too but it seems to me that if my footwork is right, I can't break the 180. I am going to have to video it though to make sure before turning it loose at a match.

As long as you're turning into the gun, it won't be a problem. You will have turned enough to have the gun pointing downrange by the time it's coming out of the holster. R,

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I really like it when someone brings back one of the early threads. Thanks, Bart!

And it's also cool to see that Jake, who was awesome back then, is still awesome now, has revised a techinque.

"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the experts mind there are few." -Suzuki

Brian began this forum nearly a decade ago. And we all continue to begin it.

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