Turn and draw

[Flyin40]

Are you guys actually "worried" about breaking the 180 when drawing? Or, is your foot work fast enough where breaking the 180 is nearly impossible? I am loading on my left leg too but it seems to me that if my footwork is right, I can't break the 180. I am going to have to video it though to make sure before turning it loose at a match.

I was worried about it at one time. I found that snapping my head hard around towards the target takes care of it.

Flyin

[Flexmoney]

I'll add a tidbit...

I was at the range one day when a shooter...at the time, probably around A-class/Master...was working on El Prez. I wasn't on the bay to see him, but could hear the buzzer and then the time to first shot. It was a little bit slow. I decided to take a look, expecting him to not be snapping the head around (the usual cause for a slower turn and draw).

He was getting his head around really well, no problems with foot work. The thing that was slowing him was that, as he turned, he already would have the gun at nearly full extension. This meant that, when he was ready to shoot...the gun wasn't quite where it needed to be yet.

Since the gun was extended and moving at high speed, that required that it had to come to an abrupt stop on target. Just like standing on the brakes in your car. There is going to be some shimmy going on at the end of the stop. So, the gun wasn't stable on target. He was having to wait on the shimmy to stop.

I advised that he may want to try keeping the gun in closer to the body during much of the turn and then extending it out to the target as the turn completed. This took a few tenths off his turn and draw nearly immediately.

[G-ManBart]

I'll add a tidbit...

I was at the range one day when a shooter...at the time, probably around A-class/Master...was working on El Prez. I wasn't on the bay to see him, but could hear the buzzer and then the time to first shot. It was a little bit slow. I decided to take a look, expecting him to not be snapping the head around (the usual cause for a slower turn and draw).

He was getting his head around really well, no problems with foot work. The thing that was slowing him was that, as he turned, he already would have the gun at nearly full extension. This meant that, when he was ready to shoot...the gun wasn't quite where it needed to be yet.

Since the gun was extended and moving at high speed, that required that it had to come to an abrupt stop on target. Just like standing on the brakes in your car. There is going to be some shimmy going on at the end of the stop. So, the gun wasn't stable on target. He was having to wait on the shimmy to stop.

I advised that he may want to try keeping the gun in closer to the body during much of the turn and then extending it out to the target as the turn completed. This took a few tenths off his turn and draw nearly immediately.

That's one heck of a cool tidbit!

[Chris iliff]

Yes, that is a nugget, thanks Flex.

[Singlestack]

I have been pondering the placement of my right foot lately. I'm a righty and I turn into the gun. I have a solid turn and draw but I have noticed on an array like El Prez or 09-02 Diamond Cutter I tend to put the shots on the right side target a bit high and right. I'm thinking it might be because I'm turning on the left target and I point my right foot at it so when I index to the right my platform gets twisted. I wonder if I could turn on the left target but point my foot more to the middle of the array.

Hmmm... that would probably wreck everything.

[G-ManBart]

I have been pondering the placement of my right foot lately. I'm a righty and I turn into the gun. I have a solid turn and draw but I have noticed on an array like El Prez or 09-02 Diamond Cutter I tend to put the shots on the right side target a bit high and right. I'm thinking it might be because I'm turning on the left target and I point my right foot at it so when I index to the right my platform gets twisted. I wonder if I could turn on the left target but point my foot more to the middle of the array.

Hmmm... that would probably wreck everything.

Do you pivot on your right foot, or take the partial step back with it first, or something else?

[Singlestack]

I have been pondering the placement of my right foot lately. I'm a righty and I turn into the gun. I have a solid turn and draw but I have noticed on an array like El Prez or 09-02 Diamond Cutter I tend to put the shots on the right side target a bit high and right. I'm thinking it might be because I'm turning on the left target and I point my right foot at it so when I index to the right my platform gets twisted. I wonder if I could turn on the left target but point my foot more to the middle of the array.

Hmmm... that would probably wreck everything.

Do you pivot on your right foot, or take the partial step back with it first, or something else?

I pick my right foot up and step towards the target driving with my left leg. My right foot winds up pointing straight at the target I'm drawing to because thats where I'm looking.

[Chris iliff]

My right foot does the same. I end up not square with the array. I need to work on getting that foot into a better position, like pointing just outside T3.

[G-ManBart]

I pick my right foot up and step towards the target driving with my left leg. My right foot winds up pointing straight at the target I'm drawing to because thats where I'm looking.

Thanks...I'm going to have to do some more comparison and see where my foot winds up. I haven't noticed a hit pattern like you're describing, but better squared up can't be anything but helpful. R,

[Flexmoney]

...so when I index to the right my platform gets twisted

John,

I try to get that right foot pointed to the outside of the right target. Tough to do with a quick turn and draw.

I do that with everything. I always want my toes (of both feet) to be pointing outside the targets that I am shooting and transitioning to. It's just a good strong foundation that way. If not, your weight is out past the knee..a position of weakness. (which means the shooter has to muscle the gun around from an abnormal and disadvantaged position...which often results in poor hits and tracking...as you have seen)

I don't know if anybody remembers the El Prez video Steve Anderson used to have up... He didn't get all the way around (wrt: right foot) on the draw, but he would shift his feet to a more stable position during the reload.

[Jmanchester]

This thread is interesting because I have been focusing very hard on the el presidente qualifier in my practice lately. I have so much trouble getting my first shot off quickly. Probably one of the main reasons that i cant break into the 5s. The information here is nice but it would be better to get the opinion of a pro shooter who is winning today and not 10 years ago. Someone like Ben Stoeger. This way we could compare the differences. Does he normally chime into threads like this?

Thanks guys,

Jman^2

[bbbean]

This thread would be a lot more useful with video.

[DyNo!]

This thread would be a lot more useful with video.

"Brian began this forum nearly a decade ago. And we all continue to begin it."

I think I might make one on Wednesday.

[Jake Di Vita]

This thread is interesting because I have been focusing very hard on the el presidente qualifier in my practice lately. I have so much trouble getting my first shot off quickly. Probably one of the main reasons that i cant break into the 5s. The information here is nice but it would be better to get the opinion of a pro shooter who is winning today and not 10 years ago. Someone like Ben Stoeger. This way we could compare the differences. Does he normally chime into threads like this?

I'm sure Ben would help you out if you PM'd him.

This information isn't exactly dated though. Chances are the reason your turning draw is holding you back is from not snapping the eyes to the target first, although I'd say if you are having trouble going sub-6, there are probably more significant areas to look at first.

Maybe try posting what your splits are for each shot to give a bit better info to work from.

[steel1212]

I'm not Jake, Ben, or Steve, but here is El Prez and Melody line in one video.

[hopalong]

Not too bad there Corey.

Might I suggest instead of shooting everything left to right, that you may mix it up just because...................

Like El Prez.

shoot left to right, reload right to left.......ect. ect. and so on.

(GOOD Practice) incase you hit a stage where it is all right to left ect., ect. and so on.

But what do I know ?

Hop

[Singlestack]

Ok, I'll throw one out there. I ain't no Cory but what the heck

Turn ain't too bad. First shot was a bit slow, kind of a hard shot though. Everything was looking good until shot #7. I pegged the no-shoot like I meant too. Knew it when it happened. You can see it hit me and change everything. I'm thinking if I would of had my right foot pointed more towards the last target my index would have been better.

OBTW.. I know it is set up wrong! geesss, ya think they'd let a fellow live it down...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huprO-ApBaA

[Ben Stoeger]

This thread is interesting because I have been focusing very hard on the el presidente qualifier in my practice lately. I have so much trouble getting my first shot off quickly. Probably one of the main reasons that i cant break into the 5s. The information here is nice but it would be better to get the opinion of a pro shooter who is winning today and not 10 years ago. Someone like Ben Stoeger. This way we could compare the differences. Does he normally chime into threads like this?

Thanks guys,

Jman^2

J,

Here is a video where you see me do the El Prez from 2 angles:

I try to use the technique that Jake is describing. There is lots of good advice on here actually... Snap your eyes, swing your leg around, get on target and go. Good luck!

[FN fan]

I think i'll have to give this a try, it sounds like a good idea, thanks for sharing!

[boz1911]

I used to swing the strong side leg around at the draw but it was hurting my left knee. My setup now has me putting weight on the right heel and on the ball of my left foot. I am a righty and turn into the gun. My turn has me pivoting on the right heel and swinging my left leg around. It does use up some space in the box but at least now I'm not hurting my left knee. I don't know if it's the fastest way but it seems consistent enough for me. First shots are close to a second and El Prez's are mid 4's in practice on a good day.

[sperman]

Here is Max. It looks like he just pivots on the right foot (ignore the 2nd half of the video.)

Here is Travis. He takes more of a step back with the right foot.

Jake with is new technique

I think this is the Steve Anderson video that was mentioned before

[Demetrio]

Note: Thread merged. - Admin.

Hi all,

What's the best technique to turn in the CLC-13 Classifier (EL PRESIDENTE)?

Regards,

Demetrio.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Flexmoney

[TCKev]

Hopefully Steve Anderson will be along to answer this. But I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express and read his book. So here goes Steve suggests snapping your head around before the body that way you get the sight picture your looking for before the rest of you gets around. Definitley helped me out, my times got better. First time shooting Diamond Cutter 16% just shot it again at 61.5%. That's 1 year between the 2. Buy Steve's book it definitley works. Dry Fire has helped me tremendously.

[JakeMartens]

All the way....especially before the draw

Edited August 26, 2011 by JakeMartens

[Demetrio]

Hopefully Steve Anderson will be along to answer this. But I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express and read his book. So here goes Steve suggests snapping your head around before the body that way you get the sight picture your looking for before the rest of you gets around. Definitley helped me out, my times got better. First time shooting Diamond Cutter 16% just shot it again at 61.5%. That's 1 year between the 2. Buy Steve's book it definitley works. Dry Fire has helped me tremendously.

Yes, I have that great book.

I think I was not very specific at what I meant with my initial question. What I wanted to know was the best technique to turn the FEET, in order to get a good shooting stance.

Demetrio.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Demetrio