650 versus LnL

[raz-0]

LNL case feeder problems

-Top: case turns over and begins to back cases up until they overflow.

-Top: randomly drops cases on my head

-Bottom: continently drops 2 cases or none- it seems the perfect place is in between the two settings but the adjustments seem to be sub par and likes to move.

-Bottom cases like to fall on the hand that pushes the case into the shell plate and fall off the press.

-Bottom: the assembly where the actuator moves and drops the cases seems to move because the mounting bracket sucks.

Press problems:

my only problem with the press is the the drive hub is made out of pot metal and has broken three times. It broke again this weekend and I will make my monthly call to Hornandys CS.

The press is great, but I cant go 30-40 rounds with out trying to fix something with the case feeder. My LNL can do about 300 a hour.

I have had no problems with the priming system or the timing of the press. If I could take the LNL press and the Dillon case feeder it would make a great press.

I am really tired of messing around with the case feeder. It is just a PITA, and I will trade for a Dillon 650 if anyone thinks the LNL is better. I use to like to reload, but no I hate it because I know I am going to have to mess with the case feeder.

OK, I had a LOT of the same problems as you. I was fixing an issue more than every 30-40 rounds before I took the whole case feeder setup apart and started over approaching it like a puzzle and like everything in the hornady "manual" was a lie except the name of the parts.

Brass rain - Go through your junk mail until you find a lowes project starter coupon, credit card ad, or anything that uses thin plastic credit card shaped objects in them. take said object. slide in between the clear plastic bit and the black plastic of the case feeder . It will not permit cases to fall out.

Tipping cases binding above the activator switch.- The card above will prevernt tipping ffront to back that is posisble with some calibers. If you are also getting tipping side to side, make something that fits in there and narrows the V. When you do this, you will also have to adjust the window, and possibly block off part of the opening in the bowl so that cases can only fall into your new narrower V.

Dropping two - First make sure you have the drop tube secured with the two locking rings properly. BEyond that, I had problems with this trying to get this to work with the large drop tube setup. I use the small, but I aslo push through size all my .40 brass to ensure it runs 100% in all my .40 guns. without that step, even slightly bulged .40 can hang up in the tube badly. It can also be aggravated by the same thing that causes the next one.

Case feeding assembly moves becasue the mount sucks - I said that for a year. It got to the point it was getting out of adjustment every 5 minutes. It turned out toe be the bit that toggles back and forth with the hole in it. I had that screw adjusted too tightly, which made the force required to toggle it back and forth great enough to keep moving the whole assembly out of alignment. The screw in that toggling bit is meant to retain the spring, and keep it near level. it should be just snug enough the load form the spring doesn't make it can't badly. The case feeding clockwork went from clunky, marginal crap to SMOOTH jsut with this change.

Cases landing on the foot/claw/pusher thing. - try the pusher tips that are the next larger and smaller sizes. I went through severs, and what is on my press and working fine is NOT what hornady recommended. I think I have the #3 on there? I'd hace to check to be certain.

There are two main issues with the case feeder one is that hornady chose the exact dimensions to make .40 a total PITA. The other is that it comes with an exploded diagram and some general advice in lieu of actual setup instructions.

[98sr20ve]

Also, if you watch how cases are dropping you may see that some cases are falling to soon. So I took the bowl off and elongated the holes between the bowl and motor. That allowed me to reclock the bowl so that the cases fall a little later. Otherwise they fall to soon, hit the side of the chute and flip over or fall out.

[98sr20ve]

1. The XL650 has less leverage than the LNL, but a bit shorter throw.

Hornady told me the 650 has better priming leverage then the LnL. I don't think they would lie about that.

Having owned the LnL for 5 months. I can't find much about it I like better then both my Dillons. Powder Measure included. It's a rust bucket. PITA.

I didn't say priming leverage, I said leverage and that refers to up force against the die when you pull the handle down.

How much priming leverage does the xl650 have, enought to rip the rim off the brass and push it out of the shell plate when you hit a GECO piece of 9 mm brass. On a WCC it will shove it right into that crimped primer pocket and you got yourself a flat primer before shooting it. If brute force isn't working you are just not using enough.

650 primes easily compared to the LnL.

Even you have admitted that you use a snapping motion to seat primers. 650 doesn't require any of those tricks. It just works.

The rest isn't terribly important Sizing cases on both machines is not that big of a deal. At least in my experiance.

[OUshooter]

I went through this ~year ago. I ended up with a shiny new Big Red Machine. You will get some folks willing to step forward here, but the bottom line is a lot of folks with no knowledge of one will reject the press because it's not blue.

I bought a LnL + case feeder and as long as I did my part it did it's part. I've had issues that Hornady was all over like a pack of dogs on a 3 legged cat. If Dillion is better than that then God bless em, but I will never know.

I don't have a dillon, and probably never will. They are good machines, but the Hornady has been awesome so there really is no need to change.

It really comes down to what you can afford. These 2 machines are really close, but seeing other 650's in action I have to give the nod to the LnL.

[OUshooter]

1. The XL650 has less leverage than the LNL, but a bit shorter throw.

Hornady told me the 650 has better priming leverage then the LnL. I don't think they would lie about that.

Having owned the LnL for 5 months. I can't find much about it I like better then both my Dillons. Powder Measure included. It's a rust bucket. PITA.

I didn't say priming leverage, I said leverage and that refers to up force against the die when you pull the handle down.

How much priming leverage does the xl650 have, enought to rip the rim off the brass and push it out of the shell plate when you hit a GECO piece of 9 mm brass. On a WCC it will shove it right into that crimped primer pocket and you got yourself a flat primer before shooting it. If brute force isn't working you are just not using enough.

650 primes easily compared to the LnL.

Even you have admitted that you use a snapping motion to seat primers. 650 doesn't require any of those tricks. It just works.

The rest isn't terribly important Sizing cases on both machines is not that big of a deal. At least in my experiance.

Um yeah....ok

I just use a nice smooth stroke and my LnL seats just fine. I will admit that I haven't used a 650 but if your having to "jerk" the handle or use some "trick" to seat primers, then I can only surmise there is either an equipment or adjustment issue.

[98sr20ve]

Yep. That is one of the problems with the LnL. Some presses (not all) don't seat primers.

[mizer67]

I discovered a new issue with my LNL today. Really had me scratching my head trying to figure it out. I'd only loaded SP primers on the LNL until today, but I've been teaching a new reloader and he wants to load .45 ACP. I tried Winchester LPP in my press and the primer shuttle kept getting stuck in the rearmost position.

Turns out, the large pistol primer shuttle needed a ~60 degree bevel on the rear of the hole with my campher tool and then a polish or the second primer on top of the one that had dropped into the shuttle would get hung up on the sharp ridge of the primer shuttle hole and jam the shuttle to the rear.

Also takes enormous amounts of force to seat Win LPP fully. I don't have a workaround for this one yet. It slows things down quite a bit, but I am able to get them flush.

Edited August 14, 2011 by mizer67

[CocoBolo]

I discovered a new issue with my LNL today. Really had me scratching my head trying to figure it out. I'd only loaded SP primers on the LNL until today, but I've been teaching a new reloader and he wants to load .45 ACP. I tried Winchester LPP in my press and the primer shuttle kept getting stuck in the rearmost position.

Turns out, the large pistol primer shuttle needed a ~60 degree bevel on the rear of the hole with my campher tool and then a polish or the second primer on top of the one that had dropped into the shuttle would get hung up on the sharp ridge of the primer shuttle hole and jam the shuttle to the rear.

Also takes enormous amounts of force to seat Win LPP fully. I don't have a workaround for this one yet. It slows things down quite a bit, but I am able to get them flush.

I finished up a 1000 45's this am on the LNL, after reading your post I did notice that the WIN LPP were a bit hard to seat, so I decided to try some Federal LPP. Guess what just only a tad less effort to seat. I wish you had not posted this as I started paying attention to it. I always give the LNL a good jab on the back stroke so the primer goes all the way home every time, but as you mention the LPP does take more effort to seat than the SPP. On 9 mm, 38SC, 40, the primers just fall in but nope not 45, can't compare to the XL650, and its not worth $100+ to find out, since I only use about 1500 45's a year.

[mizer67]

Sorry.

I load sitting down, so I'm really leaning on the press to get those Win LPP primers in there, enough to tip my chair backwards to ensure they're fully flush.

On the plus side, I have managed to wear an even bigger divot into the LNL frame below the primer punch now.

Your right, the SPP are much easier to seat though (save a few brands like Wolf SPP).

[CocoBolo]

Sorry.

I load sitting down, so I'm really leaning on the press to get those Win LPP primers in there, enough to tip my chair backwards to ensure they're fully flush.

On the plus side, I have managed to wear an even bigger divot into the LNL frame below the primer punch now.

Your right, the SPP are much easier to seat though (save a few brands like Wolf SPP).

Just lay a thin flat washer under the punch before you punch thru the press body. Like I said a jab, not a steady push and I load sitting on a bar stool, well I'm not drinking, no rocking the boat just a quick jab and it goes home. Like comparing a std wrench to a impack wrench. You are using the big punch right? Also get one of those dillon plastic primer dip sticks then you won't get the last primer hangup, you will just capture the dip stick.

[jar]

Also get one of those dillon plastic primer dip sticks then you won't get the last primer hangup, you will just capture the dip stick.

The LnL started coming with a plastic primer rod primer follower at the time of the EZ-ject changes.

[mizer67]

Sorry.

I load sitting down, so I'm really leaning on the press to get those Win LPP primers in there, enough to tip my chair backwards to ensure they're fully flush.

On the plus side, I have managed to wear an even bigger divot into the LNL frame below the primer punch now.

Your right, the SPP are much easier to seat though (save a few brands like Wolf SPP).

Just lay a thin flat washer under the punch before you punch thru the press body. Like I said a jab, not a steady push and I load sitting on a bar stool, well I'm not drinking, no rocking the boat just a quick jab and it goes home. Like comparing a std wrench to a impack wrench. You are using the big punch right? Also get one of those dillon plastic primer dip sticks then you won't get the last primer hangup, you will just capture the dip stick.

I use a spent primer on the bottom of the ram, normally. It works to diffuse the load and doesn't wear much of a divot into the press. I hadn't taken the time to do it with the large seater, as I rarely use it. I still don't understand why Hornady designed the bottom of the seaters to be tapered?

I have the primer follower that Hornady (now) sends with the press. I found for LPP, though, that a rod from my chrono used to hold the sun screen works better. It's heavier. I'm going to search for something similar that fits the SPP, as I still get hangups near the end of the tube from time to time.

[59Bassman]

I use a brass rod as a primer follower. Cheap, available at any Ace hardware.

[CocoBolo]

I was curious how fast the LNL was, so I put the stop watch to it with 300 rounds of 9 mm minor. I took the bullet feeder off and loaded by hand like most LNL users. Case feeder makeing a racket and a handful of bullets. 300 rounds took 21 minutes. During the 300 I had 3 cases fall over on the way to the shell plate, and I figured out why I noticed that the loader was loose, the bolts need to be tightened. Other than that hit one GECO piece of brass. In a day or two I will fire up the XL650 with 9 major for a comparison.

So at a relaxed pace 875 an hours is dooable, without the bullet feeder.

[Foxbat]

So at a relaxed pace 875 an hours is dooable,

At that volume the Dillon roller handle will become a distinct advantage.

[mizer67]

There's something similar (roller handle) for the Hornady, but I've never seen any reviews of how good, or bad it is:

My link

Edited August 18, 2011 by mizer67

[silerlock]

My lnl works as well as my 650. The case feeder on the hornaday took a little tweaking but works like a champ now. Thousands of .40 rounds through it without a problem. I,ll be happy to share what i did to the case feeder and little tweaks to the press.

Chris

[CocoBolo]

So at a relaxed pace 875 an hours is dooable,

At that volume the Dillon roller handle will become a distinct advantage.

Well my question is if Dillon is such a "owner" oriented company why don't they just put the roller handle on to start with, it can't cost much more than the ball or in the case of the plastic roller probably less. I used the 650 for about a year before I put the roller handle on, for that year it was under the welding bench, then I started binge loading, get low load a couple thousand, the first thousand is ok but somewhere in the second thousand I would get a blister between the palm and the thumb pad. I put the roller handle on and no blister.

If there is enough interest in a LNL handle I'd work on a roller to replace the ball rather than the whole handle and make it inexpensive.

[raz-0]

There's something similar (roller handle) for the Hornady, but I've never seen any reviews of how good, or bad it is:

My link

I have it. The angle is decent, and overall it is an improvement. However, the roller part of the handle is not really wide enough. So it is a good idea and marked improvement, but could be awesome with a better roller handle.

If there is enough interest in a LNL handle I'd work on a roller to replace the ball rather than the whole handle and make it inexpensive.

With the stroke of the LnL, the bend makes a difference, and imo is most of where the improvement form that handle comes from.

Edited August 18, 2011 by raz-0

[sonicslam]

To the OP....If you have loaded that many rounds on a Dillon (any Dillon) you will probably NOT like the LnL. They are almost opposite in every function. If you adjust and adapt well you should be ok, but if you are a guy who likes consistancy you won't care for the LnL. Again, I question the primer seating issue. Go measure a SPP case, at primer pocket depth, then meausre a SPP. There isn't much more than .001/.002 below flush there. Someone else here posted they think the Dillon crushes the primer SLIGHTLY, therefore it looks below flush more than it is.I have never ever had a high primer, in either SPP or LPP.

[CocoBolo]

To the OP....If you have loaded that many rounds on a Dillon (any Dillon) you will probably NOT like the LnL. They are almost opposite in every function. If you adjust and adapt well you should be ok, but if you are a guy who likes consistancy you won't care for the LnL. Again, I question the primer seating issue. Go measure a SPP case, at primer pocket depth, then meausre a SPP. There isn't much more than .001/.002 below flush there. Someone else here posted they think the Dillon crushes the primer SLIGHTLY, therefore it looks below flush more than it is.I have never ever had a high primer, in either SPP or LPP.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=134183&pid=1512507&st=0entry1512507

[Foxbat]

Well my question is if Dillon is such a "owner" oriented company why don't they just put the roller handle on to start with, it can't cost much more than the ball or in the case of the plastic roller probably less.

Just how customer-oriented Dillon is - is a well known quantity, there are no secrets, they have long track record. As far as why they don't give us more for the same price - I don't have access to their books, so I would stay away from guessing.

[98sr20ve]

Well my question is if Dillon is such a "owner" oriented company why don't they just put the roller handle on to start with, it can't cost much more than the ball or in the case of the plastic roller probably less.

Because they are a business not a charity. They are in business to make money. Not to give away free upgrades that their competitors don't even offer.

[sonicslam]

Well my question is if Dillon is such a "owner" oriented company why don't they just put the roller handle on to start with, it can't cost much more than the ball or in the case of the plastic roller probably less.

Because they are a business not a charity. They are in business to make money. Not to give away free upgrades that their competitors don't even offer.

He wasn't suggesting that Dillon should "give away" the roller handle. He is suggesting that the cost diffence between the two is possibly insignificant. Therefore, install the roller handle O.E.M. That's all. With what Dillon charges for their stuff it should come with all the bells and whistles.

[Foxbat]

With what Dillon charges for their stuff it should come with all the bells and whistles.

Is this new law? In other words, we should outlaw all options on all products?

I run a small manufacturing firm, and most of our products have options and upgrades. Our customers love it that way. I suspect overwhelmingly so do the Dillon customers. To me the premium they charge over their competition is more than justified by their quality... and apparently I am not alone.

Yes, they could have rolled in all the options into their standard packages, but I would argue that I would not like that, as I do not need some of them - namely I never use their strong mount and powder sensors, among others, and with the bullet feeder their bullet tray also becomes unneeded.