Limiting Registration

[Graham Smith]

As mentioned in another thread, more people are starting to show up at matches than can comfortably be handled. This has sparked something of an internal debate about just how to get this under control.

The basic consensus is that we are going to do pre-registration starting with our regular shooters, then adding in others that pre-register until we get to a certain number. On the day of the match, the pre-registered people will have until a certain time to check in. After that, open slots will go to people on a first come first served basis.

One of the key points of debate is how to accommodate new shooters. One view of this is that if we already have more people than the match can handle, we can only take new shooters if we don't have enough regular shooters show up. An unspoken part of this is the recognition that new shooters always slow things down. Not the best way to look at it since we were all new once, but there's not point in denying that it has occurred to everyone that more experienced shooters generally means a faster match.

Another view is to allow new shooters in on a first come basis along with everyone else who shows up.

The clear problem is that a line has to be drawn somewhere. If we start making exceptions then it becomes a nightmare for the person doing registration.

Suggestions?

[sfinney]

If you must absolutely have a limit:

Those that help set the match up are "preregistered". After that - first come first served, with a preset preannounced cap on the number of shooters. If you want to shoot, get there early.

Best solution: turn no one way (especially new shooters). Increase squads, increase squad size, set more stages, schedule a lunch break for half the match at a time... many ways to increae efficiency.

How many shooters are you talking about? Are you trying to get everyone done shooting in a half a day, or can you go longer?

[spanky]

I have had this issue and may in the future as well. In June and July we had 70+ shooters at our local match and are currently physically limited to 5 stages. We could possibly run a 6th stage but that is debatable. I wouldn't think I would ever consider turning people away, though.

[prreed10]

I ran our clubs monthly IDPA match for the past 3 years. When took over, we averaged 30 shooters a match. My last match was June and we are now averaging 50+ shooters a match. We shoot open squadding with at least 1 SO at each stage. Biggest problem we had was we'd settup the day of the match and the SO's would shoot after all the competitors. Some days the SO's wouldn't start until 1:00 or so, then by the time we were done shooting, everyone was gone & the SO's were left to tear down. It would make for a long day, especially during thr warm months. Now we settup the day before, the SO's shoot early, & the competitors shoot after. Then everyone tears down. So far it is working good and we are usually able to run everyone through 5-6 stages & be done by 12:00-1:00.

Our Multigun is a different story. We require preregistration several weeks before the match. New multigun shooters must have participated in at least 4 of our or another local club's action pistol matches. First shooters accepted are those who volunteer to help settup and run the match. Then it's open to everyone who meets the requirements. We stop at 26 shooters and start a waiting list. If someone walks up and we are at 26 shooters, they are turned away. Unfortunately, some shooters are turned off by this, but due to only having 2-3 consistent SO's for Multigun, this is the way we have to do it.

We thought about having a competition shooting beginners class, but nobody really had to time to do this on top of work and shooting schedules.

[lugnut]

I can't wait to hear what people do. Our IDPA club's matches are going over 60 lately. One of the local USPA matches have upwards of 100 shooters on a regular basis. Rotating SO/ROs isn't the best thing but for local matches it's easier for the staff. But how to handle the mobs of people that are showing up? It's a challenge for sure. On one hand you don't want to turn away new shooters but you also don't want to have burn out from people that regularly contribute! Obviously recruiting new blood has to be an ongoing task.

[spanky]

$75 seems cheap to me considering the money we pour into this sport. Wish I was closer.

[Graham Smith]

How many shooters are you talking about? Are you trying to get everyone done shooting in a half a day, or can you go longer?

We can set up 7 stages (2 long, 3 medium, 1 classifier, 1 speed shoot) on 6 ranges. There is a 7th range but that is reserved for rifle. Regardless, increasing the number of stages my decrease the squad size but it can increase the total length of time to shoot the whole match. IOW, it takes roughly the same amount of time for 70 people to shoot 140 rounds regardless of the number of squads.

We can only setup one range the day before, the rest have to be left open for the membership. We do pre-stage some stuff like target stands and wall components but even that has it's limits.

On the day of the match, we can't start shooting until around 11am and really need to be clear of the range by 4pm to give range members some time.

Based on past experience, if we go past 72 shooters (6 squads of 12) then we are pushing our luck. The last match we had over 80 show up including 5 new shooters and a few regulars left because they just couldn't stay that long.

And therein lies the rub. There is no way we can afford to loose these long time regular shooters.

[Canuck223]

Would it help to consider larger squads but longer windows as well? Done right, bigger squads seem to mean faster patching and scoring,

[Graham Smith]

Would it help to consider larger squads but longer windows as well? Done right, bigger squads seem to mean faster patching and scoring,

Not sure what you mean by longer windows, but yes, up to a point, larger squads can move faster than squads that are too small. With 12 person squads, there are 2 RO's (timer and scorekeeper), the shooter, the on deck, and the prior shooter (who is reloading) who are tied up, but that still leaves at 6 or 7 to patch and reset. But beyond that there's no real gain.

But this is all pretty much skirting the main question. If there is going to be a limit, how do you go about balancing it? Do you just say, all the regular shooters take priority, period; or do you try and make room for new shooters?

[prreed10]

Here would me my priority, if you decide to limit:

MD & staff

Anyone who aids in set up

Regular shooters

New shooters

When we set limits on our 3 gun shooters, many at that particular club meeting were upset. They thought club members should be selected first before non club members. I told them that if they helped, fine, but I'd take a non member who helps set up and run the match over a club member who shows up 15 minutes before start time everytime.

[Joe4d]

I dont think much of the "pre register our regulars" then pre register others, you are creating two classes of shooters with different registration rules. Thats one way to solve your new shooter problem. If ole hank doest have to sign up at all it's just assumed he'll be there so a slot is saved, but the guy who only shoots once in awhile has to sign up weeks out. Maybe not what you meant but kinda the impression I got from the OP.

Other than that your plan sounds great, Have online registration, including registration to setup, the a written in stone check in time, at that its first come first serve regardless of newness or regularness. (is that a word?)

New shooters are finding out about matches online and as long as your match postings and fliers spell out the signup procedures there shouldnt be any problems. Fredericksburg VA has been doing this for a couple years with good results.

[Graham Smith]

I dont think much of the "pre register our regulars" then pre register others, you are creating two classes of shooters with different registration rules.

Call it seniority if you will but it's the more experienced shooters who are usually the RO's and scorekeepers and the guys who help the less experienced shooters. No match can afford to loose these people.

[sfinney]

On the day of the match, we can't start shooting until around 11am and really need to be clear of the range by 4pm to give range members some time.

Ok, there is your biggest constraint.

I assume the 11am start time dictated by the setup time required in the morning? Maybe the stages could be set late afternoon on Friday, or evening on Friday with lights?

No hope of getting the range to just give you guys a complete day on Saturday 1 day per month, til dusk? Or half of Friday for setup, and until say 2 or 3 pm Saturday? Ranges I've been a member of, it was just understood that matches (cowboy, IDPA, USPSA, Steel, etc) took precedence a few days a month.

Maybe consider paying (or giving free entry) to those who will show up Friday evening or early (like 5am) Saturday for the setup. And then get your matches rolling at 9am sharp.

[technetium-99m]

We can only setup one range the day before, the rest have to be left open for the membership. We do pre-stage some stuff like target stands and wall components but even that has it's limits.

On the day of the match, we can't start shooting until around 11am and really need to be clear of the range by 4pm to give range members some time.

You've probably already done this but I'd suggest talking to the club membership about your time constraints and see if you can get more range time. That's a tight timetable for anyone.

I mean $15 from 80 people is $1,200 in entry fees alone (yes I realize you have to pay for targets etc.) I'd think the club would be wanting every shooter you could run.

If you're looking at limiting shooters I'd take those who help first and then the rest on a first come first serve basis. Holding slots for people who might show never worked very well here. Whatever your policy becomes be sure to announce it well before you start it. Surprises aren't fun.

[joseywales]

...Have online registration, including registration to setup, the a written in stone check in time, at that its first come first serve regardless of newness or regularness. (is that a word?)

That's the approach I would recommend, and be sure that the MD, staff, and setup crew are always at front of this line.

We have a similar circumstance at a popular steel match here in DFW that we run on summer evenings.

Time constraints on start & finish time, and the setup + tear down must all be done on match day (evening).

We don't have online registration capability, so we use the "ARRIVE well before signup deadline and shoot the match", or "arrive late & take a chance that you watch."

Only had to turn away a few folks at one of our matches, and for those turned away, we give 'match chits' that amount to one free match.

Kind of a "thanks for coming, sorry you didn't get to play, hope you'll come back" - somewhat softens the disappointment of not getting to shoot.

And then of course, the 105-degree+ temps this summer are kinda solving any potential "high attendance issues" for us.

Edited August 2, 2011 by joseywales

[Graham Smith]

I assume the 11am start time dictated by the setup time required in the morning? Maybe the stages could be set late afternoon on Friday, or evening on Friday with lights?

Let me just say that the times this match is run and when setup takes place, etc, have been discussed to death. To rehash it all here would serve no purpose. This match has pretty much been run in the time mentioned here for over 12 years. And this is the first time that pre-registration has even been considered and it's being considered with great reluctance. But we have determined, for all the reasons said and not said, that we need to cap registration at 72 (6 x 12). And we are not alone - other clubs in the area are at or beyond the practical limit and it's taking a toll on everyone.

The only question is, how to make it equitable. We don't want to alienate our long term shooters by turning them away at the door, but we are concerned that it we shut it off to new shooters completely then there will be no new blood to replace people that move or move on to other things.

[lugnut]

The only question is, how to make it equitable. We don't want to alienate our long term shooters by turning them away at the door, but we are concerned that it we shut it off to new shooters completely then there will be no new blood to replace people that move or move on to other things.

Thinking about this more- it's almost like supply and demand has to go thru it's motions. Demand is high and supply is limited. Eventually people- both regulars and new shooters, will stop going because the product isn't worth it. However I would think the dedicated would persevere.

[Leftridge]

I would like to introduce a thought. Is 72 participants the max that the club can run or is 72 the max the current system will run. I shoot at your matches (good work, on your part, I will add). I shoot on a squad that scores and tapes very efficiently (you've shot on this squad too). I don't think 80+ would be a problem if the RO/scorer, team, of each squad did as our squad. Maybe an RO meeting is in order.

I think we look to change as the limiting factor, when in reality change exposes the limiting factor.

P.S. Graham, Thanks for all you do.

[Leftridge]

Another thought, if you are going to limit registration (BTW, I'm not against this) there should be no time limit. If you have 80 people register and 70 show up so be it. Further, if you have 80 register and 80 show up (maybe) and 5 new shooters does it really matter, no big deal/. One new shooter per sqaud, how much time does that add?

[Joe4d]

the only way to be equitable and fair to old and new is to have the same sign up procedures for old and new, If I was a new to the area shooter and signed up before someone else but they got to shoot and I didnt, I wouldnt be back.

[Nik Habicht]

the only way to be equitable and fair to old and new is to have the same sign up procedures for old and new, If I was a new to the area shooter and signed up before someone else but they got to shoot and I didnt, I wouldnt be back.

The only way to get the matches built and officiated is generally to let the staff shoot the match. No staff = no match.....

[Joe4d]

Thats why you have sign up for shooting, and sign up for building either way you have to sign up ahead of time, first to register has priority. Who's to say the new guy isnt a certified RO ? I also dont buy youd be swamped with so many new shooters on an email or online sign up all the builders and RO's would get pushed out, Nothing wrong with the staff signing up as soon as they know they are working/shooting they were inline first. But they should have to take positive action to sign up and not just have an assumed slot held.

"ok new guy you can shoot as long as Bubba doesnt show up"

"Did Bubba sign up ahead of time like I did?"

"No but he gennerally shows up around 9"

Humm not such a good system.

[Nuke8401]

Many people travel a significant distance for even "club" matches.

If participation must be limited I would hope that pre-registration would be used. Even a simple email to get on a list.

I would hate to travel for a match without a pre-registration available and then be turned away.

Even if advertised as first come first served and limited to X number of shooters it is just unfair to keep people hanging.

I look at shooters as customers and try to treat them like I would like to be treated.

Why not have a cap for new shooters? Maybe 1 or 2 per squad max, that way there will be no squad filled with new shooters that slows the match.

David E.

[Flexmoney]

Do you just say, all the regular shooters take priority, period; or do you try and make room for new shooters?

Make room for the new guys. Your regular help ought to already be there...go ahead and see that they are registered early.

[Graham Smith]

Is 72 participants the max that the club can run or is 72 the max the current system will run.

Rob,

It's more or less a safe limit. When we start going too much over that, it starts getting tough to get finished in time. You are right about one thing, part of what I need to do is to try and spend some time with the RO's going over procedures. As you know some squads (including my own Black Sheep squad) are pretty efficient, some are less so - some training will help with that. One thing on my list of things to do is to talk with all the ROs (a lot like trying to get all the cats together for a lecture).

Take it as a given that a number of people with a whole heap of experience have looked at this issue. Not only at our range but at other area ranges. York, PA started doing pre-registration and setting limits some time back and Central Jersey and Old Bridge and Topton are all facing the same dilemma and I rather expect that Lower Providence will be looking at this soon at the rate they are growing.

So, it's not so much a matter of if it's going to be done, it's a matter of when and how. And being a pro-active kind of guy (and a new MD who can plead ignorance to explain away mistakes), I'm going to just jump in with both feet. I know I'm going to have some people mad with me, it's just a matter of determining who those people are and to see if there is a way to kind of spread it around (or better yet, blame someone else).

There are a number of people who think that it should just be a first come registration. I would probably have been one of those last year, but as an MD I have an altered point of view because I have a much better understanding of the logistics - choreography might be a better term but this is a macho sport after all. A whole bunch of things have to happen on Saturday for a match to run smoothly.

One thorny issue is the fact that a certain percentage of the people who pre-register will not show up. So the question becomes, at what point on the day of the match do you open up the empty slots to walk-ons? And what do you do if a pre-registered person shows up late?

This is a really complicated issue and there is no one solution that is going to work for every club. But I figure the more we kick it around, the more chance some novel solutions can be found.