Leupold Prismatic Updates?

[Nuke8401]

For those using the prismatic,

How are they at longer ranges?

MGM flash targets at 300, 400? Farther?

Larue at distance?

There was some rumor of a BDC in the future, any news?

So what is the advantage of a prismatic over a low power scope such as the Weaver 1-3 besides being able to shoot in irons/1x vice tac-optics?

I am possibly going from irons to an optic next year. Unless of course I kick some @#$ at the AR15/Rockcastle match.

Thanks,

David E.

[DyNo!]

I didn't have any trouble at LaRue with mine out to 480 yards.

I recently had a knob put on it but I doubt it will see much use. (Better to have it and not need it...)

I wouldn't use the prismatic outside of limited - it's a broken variable if you try to use it in Tactical Optics.

An option for a BDC through the custom shop would be nice.

Edited July 26, 2011 by DyNo!

[ken hebert]

An option for a BDC through the custom shop would be nice.

when last i asked them i was told "no"...

[bunsen27]

I too recall a post last summer about somebody testing a prototype prismatic with a BDC reticle for Leupold. I spoke with the Leupold rep at FB3G2010 about adding a BDC reticle option to the prismatic line. On the table he had a 1-4x with a very suitable BDC:

I suggested they thin up the line thickness a little so as not to obscure the targets at long range. The rep was gracious enough to listen, but unless they start hearing request from many of the top Limited/Irons shooters for it, I don't think it is going to happen. I personally would love to have one and be very temped to start shooting Limited/Irons once again full time. I know Eotech has some quasi-BDC reticles for the 552 and XPS2. I think one of the best reticles on the market can be found in the Vortex Viper PST 1-4x:

of course that puts you into Tac Optics which sort of defeats the original purpose of using the prismatic.

[DyNo!]

The rep was gracious enough to listen, but unless they start hearing request from many of the top Limited/Irons shooters for it, I don't think it is going to happen.

I don't blame them if there isn't enough interest to do it. Frankly I think it's a "niche" optic that works great for what we'd use it for but I haven't seen anyone other than Mr. Neal and Casanova run one. I'm sure a few more people will pick them up but I don't know if that would cover the costs. There's only about XX people who shoot limited at majors anyway.

[Big Bore]

In my opinion if you have a BDC you need to step into scope tactical.

[J-Ho]

I'm with Scott on this one. Having a big circle around a dot seems fine to me but the BDC is a little much for limited in my opinion.

[RiggerJJ]

...and the slippery slope begins...

[kellyn]

The slippery slope already exists .... And always has. I have NEVER EVER shot unmodified iron sights in a high-power match, practical rifle match or 3 gun match yet nobody complained. If improved reticles are verboten shouldn't non-stock iron sights be verboten as well?

[mike.45]

GAMER !!!!

[ken hebert]

In my opinion if you have a BDC you need to step into scope tactical.

so technically what do you call A2 sights when you dial for distance?

(no hatin, i'm shooting them this year too)

[J-Ho]

In my opinion if you have a BDC you need to step into scope tactical.

so technically what do you call A2 sights when you dial for distance?

(no hatin, i'm shooting them this year too)

That's different. You are having to dial your sights. If you were using a BDC you don't have to dial. I guess in theory you could make a globe sight with a BDC as well. Just my opinion but I think Limited should be just that, limited. I'm not a huge fan of the 1Xs being in Limited anyway but that's probably where they fit in best. I think no matter how fancied up the iron sight setup, Irons are still a very simple sighting system and the division should be limited to simple sighting systems. This isn't a big enough deal to fight over for me, just what I'd like to see.

[RiggerJJ]

The slippery slope already exists .... And always has. I have NEVER EVER shot unmodified iron sights in a high-power match, practical rifle match or 3 gun match yet nobody complained. If improved reticles are verboten shouldn't non-stock iron sights be verboten as well?

Guess it would be better to say,

the slippery slope gets steeper!

.jj

[spraynpray]

That's different. You are having to dial your sights. If you were using a BDC you don't have to dial. I guess in theory you could make a globe sight with a BDC as well. Just my opinion but I think Limited should be just that, limited. I'm not a huge fan of the 1Xs being in Limited anyway but that's probably where they fit in best. I think no matter how fancied up the iron sight setup, Irons are still a very simple sighting system and the division should be limited to simple sighting systems. This isn't a big enough deal to fight over for me, just what I'd like to see.

Not exactly a BDC, but the same principle of multiple aiming points without dialing: KNS tactical crosshair (I would post a link, but I don't have enough posts).

[Lead-Head]

Our we comparing a BDC reticle within an optic, that is calibrated for drop out to 600 yards to a KNS crosshair front sight? No comparison, technology wins. And apparently it wins a lot by the looks of what many of the top finishers in TI have atop thier rifles. I think the evidence on this argument is swinging one way, advantage goes to the 1x optics.

I can think of a couple of exceptions, but I think they have a BDC etched into thier retina.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Lead-Head

[Big Bore]

In my opinion if you have a BDC you need to step into scope tactical.

so technically what do you call A2 sights when you dial for distance?

(no hatin, i'm shooting them this year too)

I would call them manually operated.

I see limited as more of a equipment division where shooters do their homework, know there rifle and there loads. More of a riflemans division not a race for the next best electronic gadget.

I don't have a need to touch my A2 sight until I exceed 400 yards, so I never touch mine except at Raton.

I've tried most of the modified iron sight set ups and except for the narrower front sight and extending the sight radius none seem any faster for me.

I'm not a big fan of the 1x optics in limited, but I see it as a way to get some more shooters into limited. I never expected it to become a tech race.

So, i guess i didn't see the slippery slope coming but I'm not surprised by it.

[spraynpray]

Our we comparing a BDC reticle within an optic, that is calibrated for drop out to 600 yards to a KNS crosshair front sight? No comparison, technology wins. And apparently it wins a lot by the looks of what many of the top finishers in TI have atop thier rifles. I think the evidence on this argument is swinging one way, advantage goes to the 1x optics.

I can think of a couple of exceptions, but I think they have a BDC etched into thier retina.

Big Bore posted: "In my opinion if you have a BDC you need to step into scope tactical." I was merely showing that a BDC-type irons setup exists, with an adjustable second aiming point too. Is it faster/more accurate than a prismatic? I don't know. I don't think it should be classified into scope tactical, though.

Eotech has BDC reticles in 1x optics:

Equipment advantages and races will always exist as long as people think outside the box but within the rules.

Edited August 2, 2011 by spraynpray

[kellyn]

It may be perceived as a growing tech race (one in which I am somewhat deeply invovled in with Leupold as we are trying to improve the Prismatic both as a competition sight and a duty sight)

BUT have any of you guys beat Kurt "Mr. Irons" Miller with your uber 1X optical sights. Most of these perceived advantages are in our minds and not in our scores.

[Lead-Head]

KM is who I was referring to when I mentioned a BDC burned into a shooter's retina. He always comes up when this topic is discussed.

I guess, since he appears to be human, it could be argued that anyone can shoot irons like KM, if they really practice, and 1x optics are no real advantage. This might take 20 years or so, but it could be done. I only have 17 years to go!

[ac4wordplay]

It may be perceived as a growing tech race (one in which I am somewhat deeply invovled in with Leupold as we are trying to improve the Prismatic both as a competition sight and a duty sight)

BUT have any of you guys beat Kurt "Mr. Irons" Miller with your uber 1X optical sights. Most of these perceived advantages are in our minds and not in our scores.

With respect, the question of advantage is NOT:

"how do I perform (using x equipment) relative to Kurt M (using y equipment)?"

The question IS:

"how do I perform (using x equipment) relative to MYSELF (using y equipment)?"

Best,

ac

[kellyn]

I can answer that one probably better than anybody as I've done a great deal of competition with both.

In my not so humble opinion, a good set of irons is actually slightly superior to the current crop of red dots and slightly inferior to the Prismatic (only with the DCD reticle not the Turkey plex) in the typical 3 gun match setting. The only caveat to that would be matches with a great deal of off center/sideways/SBU positions OR shooting in low light conditions where the dots do offer some real advantages.

I find it easier to shoot an MGM plate at 200 or even 300 with a skinny extended radius front sight than with a pixelated Eotech dot or a 2 MOA Aimpoint. Likewise I find it slightly easier to hit that same plate with the 1 MOA dot in the Pris than with the irons. The Pris is also significantly better in dawn/dusk diminshed light conditions than either irons or the red dots especially the Eotech as it transmits light a lot better - although the Aimpoint is not bad in this regard.

NOW if we were shooting a match with a bunch of targets past 300 AND Leupold improves the reticle in the Prismatic, it's advantages will increase a bit more.

[mike cyrwus]

man, dont say that, Im just getting comfy with my eotech