open67 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Getting horrible accuracy with my 9L and MTG 124 jhp. with 4.4 gr. of n350. OAL at 1.115-1.120. Shot some factory winchester 115 rn and it was equally bad. String the shots 7" to 8" vertically and 3" to 4" horizontally and placing them all low starting at 3" low at 30 yds. Will probably call S&W and have read previous threads but thought I would post to get some current or fresh tips or advice. Would get a different front or combination front and rear to bring up the "group" but this won't tighten it up. Have an apex trigger in it and am shooting from a sand bag rest (using it rest my grip and not resting the gun on them). Don't think it's me as I am an M class shooter with lots of experience. I see Storm Lake makes a barrel for the S&W but I really think accuracy should be better from new pistol from the factory. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizer67 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Getting horrible accuracy with my 9L and MTG 124 jhp. with 4.4 gr. of n350. OAL at 1.115-1.120. Shot some factory winchester 115 rn and it was equally bad. String the shots 7" to 8" vertically and 3" to 4" horizontally and placing them all low starting at 3" low at 30 yds. Will probably call S&W and have read previous threads but thought I would post to get some current or fresh tips or advice. Would get a different front or combination front and rear to bring up the "group" but this won't tighten it up. Have an apex trigger in it and am shooting from a sand bag rest (using it rest my grip and not resting the gun on them). Don't think it's me as I am an M class shooter with lots of experience. I see Storm Lake makes a barrel for the S&W but I really think accuracy should be better from new pistol from the factory. Thanks. I have a similar problem with a .40 FS that I own. I will be interested to hear the results of this thread. I'm axiously awaiting the Bar-Sto fitted barrel / Apex kit because I dearly love my M&P but can't stand its lack of accuracy with 180 gr loads and many different powders. I have tried a Storm Lake DI and it did little to improve the groups at distances >= 25 yards. I also have an Apex trigger in mine. I've called or e-mailed several 'smiths, but none seem to have any suggestions other than Bar-Sto / Apex. Edited July 5, 2011 by mizer67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdm74 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Not to sure about there barrel QC at the factory. You see allot of these posts. I may try a kkm at end of season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Of course, where the bullets hit can be adjusted by your sights. Probably best to try different weight bullets, different crimp, different OAL's. My BHP had similar results - wouldn't shoot 115's and 124's but got the group down quite a bit with 147 gr MG JHP's. Try larger group sizes - fire 12 - 15 shots, and discard the 2-3 "fliers" - see how the majority of the group looks. Good luck with it - might be the gun:( Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Burwell Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Do you still have a bunch of over travel with the apex kit in? I have seen some kits drop in and be awesome and others te tolerences stack the other way and there is a bunch of over travel. Over travel kills accuracy quicker than anything else. Not saying it couldn't be a barrel or load issue, but most of the time when I hear this and I shoot the gun after some love they shoot pretty damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic_jon Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Out of curiosity, what power factor are you getting with that N350 load at 4.4gr? I am asking because Vihtavuori's reloading data lists 5.4 gr of N350 as their starting load for a 124gr FMJ bullet. At 5.4gr you should be making in the 140PF range. In my M&P I found that I got better accuracy and tighter groups at 15+ yards when I went up into the 140ish power factor. Edit to add: I did not have good accuracy in my M&P with the 115 gr Winchester but did ok with some Federal brand NATO surplus 115gr so YMMV. Edited July 5, 2011 by Classic_jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open67 Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 Contacted S&W and they sent me a Fed-ex label to send it back in with some targets. Will see what happens. Gave it to another M class shooter to try and he got the same results. Dismall accuracy and shooting low to start with. Will post as to what happenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizer67 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Do you still have a bunch of over travel with the apex kit in? I have seen some kits drop in and be awesome and others te tolerences stack the other way and there is a bunch of over travel. Over travel kills accuracy quicker than anything else. Not saying it couldn't be a barrel or load issue, but most of the time when I hear this and I shoot the gun after some love they shoot pretty damn good. My .40 SW FS has a little more over travel than my 9 or .40 C, but it's nothing outlandish, maybe the width of a couple sheets of paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEETERSMARC Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) Hello I have the same problem with my M&p 5"Pro 9mm, with factory and relaod amunition my group is +- 8-9 inch i test the same ammunition with another M&P pro 9mm and i have the same result In our country there's not a lot of ammunitions/bullets choice availlable but i can manage some really good groups with tronconic bullets profil. Factory : S&B 115 Gr FMJ 11" S&B 124 Gr RN 8" S&B 140 Gr TC 3" Gecco 124 Gr RN 4" Reload : Berrys 124 Gr RN 9" Frontier 124 Gr RN 7" Frontier 124 Gr TC 2" Frontier 147 Gr TC 3" Ps : Sorry for my English.... Marc Edited July 27, 2011 by PEETERSMARC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Hello I have the same problem with my M&p 5"Pro 9mm, with factory and relaod amunition my group is +- 8-9 inch i test the same ammunition with another M&P pro 9mm and i have the same result In our country there's not a lot of ammunitions/bullets choice availlable but i can manage some really good groups with tronconic bullets profil. Factory : S&B 115 Gr FMJ 11" S&B 124 Gr RN 8" S&B 140 Gr TC 3" Gecco 124 Gr RN 4" Reload : Berrys 124 Gr RN 9" Frontier 124 Gr RN 7" Frontier 124 Gr TC 2" Frontier 147 Gr TC 3" Ps : Sorry for my English.... Marc What distance were you using when testing for accuracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEETERSMARC Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Hello At 25 yards ;-) Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncopenshooter Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Not to be insulting, but with groups that big at 25, I have to factor in that you might be part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWard Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 1. You're a M-Class shooter with what? Another Production gun, like a Glock or XD, or with a tuned STI 2011 with a 1.5# trigger? I'd just give it trigger time to improve of your use to a 1911 trigger. 2. Lots of 9mm get a LOT tighter groups with faster bullets, not slower. My old Pro Series shot ragged holes with factory 115gr defensive rounds. Not so good with 130PF 147s, but the recoil vastly improved my times/hit-factors. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEETERSMARC Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Not to be insulting, but with groups that big at 25, I have to factor in that you might be part of the problem. You are not insulting me... the first mistakes are coming from the shooter And in the first time i'm really thinking that..... i did a lot of test and i have always the same result good group with some ammunitions and really bad groups with others.... 1. You're a M-Class shooter with what? Another Production gun, like a Glock or XD, or with a tuned STI 2011 with a 1.5# trigger? I'd just give it trigger time to improve of your use to a 1911 trigger.2. Lots of 9mm get a LOT tighter groups with faster bullets, not slower. My old Pro Series shot ragged holes with factory 115gr defensive rounds. Not so good with 130PF 147s, but the recoil vastly improved my times/hit-factors. Jeff There's a classification in IPSC (but not really used) but all i can reply is that i'm a production shooter (if i follow the classification in my country i'm GM, and i shoot M score usualy on IPSC level 3 matchs in Europe). I have used in the past some production guns (Cz, Glock, K100/GP6, Sig) and like you know no trigger modification is allowed in IPSC production division and don't have any problem to be accurate with theses guns... Like i have previously stated i can manage good group with some ammunitions but with some others it's really really Bad!! Like example i can manage offhand 4" with the frontier 124 Gr at 133 PF (see Attached file)or the S&B factory 140. Because of this inacuracy i have switched to the Tanfoglio Stock 3 and the worst group offhand with the same ammunition are 4" I test the same ammunitions in my Glock 17 Gen4 and my K100/Gp6 with good result too !! Marc Edited July 28, 2011 by PEETERSMARC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEETERSMARC Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Hello, I did some news test but unfortunatly i don't have anymore the cartridges with really bad results (more than 8") I try at 25 meter (27,3 yards) offhand with my Tanfoglio Stock 3 & M&P pro i shoot 8 rounds and i have removed the bad one You can find in this picture the results Edited July 28, 2011 by PEETERSMARC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I have 2, 9mm Pros and one of them really tries to shoot well. It will usually put 3 shots, out of a 5 shot group, in less than an inch, at 25 yards, and then the other two will be next to each other, about an inch away from the 3 shot group. My other 9mm Pro has yet to shoot a group under 4" at 25 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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