Limited Minor 40 M&P Pro

[DocMedic]

Maybe I am crazy for taking a brand new unfired M&P 40 Pro and creating a Limited Minor freak of nature out of it?

If doesn't pan out you can always use it for Steel Challenge, since you love to shoot it so much but seriously, that would make a hell of a steel challenge gun.

Edited June 16, 2011 by DocMedic

[DonovanM]

This thread is awesome. I love the spirit of experimentation.

Is the slide back from hard chrome? I gotta see that thing dressed up and mounted on the gun!

[CHA-LEE]

Since the slide is Stainless I am not going to get it hard chromed. I had it bead blasted and it has a nice dull silver finish which was my main requirement. I hate shiny guns as they inevitably reflect the sun light right into your eyes during a stage run causing you to see spots so you can't see your sights. The bead blasted raw stainless slide will work great for keeping the glare down.

I still have a lot of work to do on this blaster though. Some more grinding and polishing is needed on the slide to take down and smooth out some of the sharp edges from the lightening cuts. Then I have to get everything back together and tuned it up.

I wish that I had time to work on it this week but I am leaving for the Area 1 Match tomorrow so I have to get my normal shooting gear ready to go. When I get back from the Area 1 match I will have some time to dig into this project.

Its looking pretty bad ass so far though. Lets just hope that it shoots as good as it looks

[NoSteel]

There have been alot of comments on another site in regards to the quality of the stainless M&P slides. There have been issues with some light spot rusting after the slides were balsted bare. With the 40. Pro being one of the latest models it will be interesting to see if you encounter the same. I'm sure a light coat of oil after each range session would also help.. Keep us informed!!!

Edited June 22, 2011 by NoSteel

[CHA-LEE]

NoSteel> I will keep an eye on rust. I am in a very dry climate though and the gun won't be used in moist conditions so I don't think it will rust. If it does start to show signs of rust I will just get it coated.

[ss+P]

Cha-Lee, i love the idea and will watch this thread for updates,

You said you where doing this for 3 reasons, press, not worried about reloading b/c you can find a spot to reload in just about any stage, and third was knocking down steel. at any match that steel should fall with a 9mm production round, 9 minor so why would that really have been a reason to stick with the .40. So far in this whole thread that is really the only thing i don't agree with or understand.

My buddy is going to shoot this weekend in limited minor with his M&P pro in 9 just to see how he does. Looking at last months overall stats he came in like 8 overall and was first Pro. He is thinking he may be faster that me so he wants to try limited. HAHA.

I went with a .40 b/c of all the reasons of points and everyone else will be shooting major, yada yada yada, but this thread and my buddy have me wondering that maybe in limited minor one could be more competitive in B,C(Maybe a class if they where really smoking fast) due to more rounds (if 9 minor) and less muzzle flip. I would have to assume when you get up there at the M and GM level it probably will hurt more than help b/c everyone is shooting so fast anyway. In the lower classes, assuming your 6% is pretty accurate, you would have to shoot and 20 second run in major in 18.8 seconds minor with the same hits. seems do able. keep us updated

[CHA-LEE]

I will have some time to work on this project this week. I am not going to get the slide hard chromed as the standard stainless slide is pretty dull after being bead blasted. I have to do some more work on the slide because the deep cut in the back left of the slide is right were my thumb would lay. Currently that deep cut has some really sharp edges and would be a very effective thumb mincer if I shot it the way it currently is. So I will do some rounding and polishing to smooth out all of the sharp edges. I did a little bit of playing around with recoil springs and found that EAA recoil springs will work if I cut some coils off of it. I will probably end up running the EAA recoil springs as there are way more spring weight options available. We will see how that goes once I get it all back together, but I like having more options than what is currently available for the M&P.

I also got in one of the APEX Tactical forward set sear and trigger kit for this gun. It came in last week and I was able to check it out yesterday. The aluminum trigger looks pretty slick and it will be neat to test it out when I build up the gun. I plan on getting some serious work done on this blaster this week. I am still waiting for the Taylor Freelance extended base pads to show up so I will not be able to shoot it until those come in.

[CHA-LEE]

Last night I got a chance to work on rounding and blending the sharp edges of the slide cuts. Now I have to get it sand blasted again to bring it back to a dull finish. I will bring it to the gunsmith to sand blast tonight.

I also disassembled the frame and did some sanding and grinding on the grip to remove the stock ripple texture. I will use skate board tape on the grip so a smooth surface will allow the grip tape to stick better. That and its nice to be able to round off some of the sharp edges and what not to make it feel better when gripping it hard.

Lastly I wasn’t sure that the Speed Specialists Limited magwell would pop off while shooting due to how it just hooks onto the front of the grip base so I used some epoxy to permanently attach it to the frame.

Once I get the slide sand blasted I can start putting everything back together and work on the trigger job. I am really interested in how the new APEX Forward Set trigger will work and feel once its all back together. Hopefully I can get it back together and work on the trigger job by tomorrow night.

[RWF]

the SSS mag well will not come loose. we have several, it simple but solid on the gun.

also as you may or may not know bead blasted stainless steel does STAIN never had a rust issue but once it got a stain on it was not coming out. just fyi

and as i understand that is all stainless steel. i know that the stainless steel sheets 4 x 8 they use at work stain also.

[CHA-LEE]

RWF> The SSS Magwell may stay on fine without needing to be epoxied on, but I just feel better now that it is epoxied on and know that its not going anywhere. As for the stainless slide staining, I really don't care. My goal was to create a surface finish that was dull and didn't reflect sunlight into my eyes while shooting and reloading and bead blasting does a great job of making the surface of the slide nice and dull. If I was going to carry this gun then it would be a totally different story. But this is a competition gun and its primary job is to function solidly in a competition environment not win a beauty contest or battle the elements over an extended amount of time.

[CHA-LEE]

Last night I spend 5 hours on this gun getting everything back together and tuned up. I tried using the new APEX forward set trigger but its too square for my liking and pushing in the middle safety lever was a little strange. I think that the trigger needs to be rounded on the sides and the safety lever spring lightened a little bit to make it feel better. But I didn’t want to spend my time screwing around with the new trigger verses getting this gun back together using the stock trigger lever I know works and feels normal. I will have to come back to the APEX forward set trigger at a later date to see if I can get it to work and feel normal.

Either way I got everything back together and used the APEX forward set Sear for the trigger job. I wanted to keep a decent amount of trigger return spring tension so I used the standard trigger return spring instead of the APEX competition spring. The trigger job turned out nice with a crisp 2.5lb break and greatly reduced take up and over travel. I also used the APEX RAM while doing this trigger job and I really like the more positive reset feel.

I tried using an 8lb EAA recoil spring but it ended up being too light and wouldn’t hold the slide in battery when it was cocked. So I reverted back to using the standard 11lb recoil spring and it worked fine on the bench.

After I got the gun all back together the balance of it feels really nice when empty. I don’t have the Taylor Freelance base pads yet so I have not had a chance to feel the balance of it with a full mag. But as it is now, it feels light and nimble. I weighed it and its empty weight is 24oz which is one oz lighter than my ladies 4 inch M&P 40 setup for Production. Her gun also feels way more top heavy than the Limited gun. It will be interesting to see how this thing shoots.

I still have to do some work on the mag release button and add some grip tape to it. Hopefully I can get that stuff done tonight. I am going to see if I can borrow a friends extended base pad so I can sight this thing in and give it a shake down run over the weekend.

Edited June 30, 2011 by CHA-LEE

[RWF]

RWF> The SSS Magwell may stay on fine without needing to be epoxied on, but I just feel better now that it is epoxied on and know that its not going anywhere. As for the stainless slide staining, I really don't care. My goal was to create a surface finish that was dull and didn't reflect sunlight into my eyes while shooting and reloading and bead blasting does a great job of making the surface of the slide nice and dull. If I was going to carry this gun then it would be a totally different story. But this is a competition gun and its primary job is to function solidly in a competition environment not win a beauty contest or battle the elements over an extended amount of time.

it was just fyi, on my first mag well i thought about expoxy also but it was so tight god willing i will never take it off. the bead blasting on the M & P does look great. i was broken hearted when mine stained, because since i do not shoot straight i like for my gun to make me look like i know what i am doing.

[CHA-LEE]

I finally got this bad boy all done. I am happy with how it turned out. At least from how it feels on the bench. I think it looks pretty sick with all of the slide cuts and bead blasted slide. I even took some pictures of it and posted them below

Now its time to get this thing to the range to see how it shoots. Hopefully I can borrow a Taylor Freelance extended base pad from one of the local shooters so I can actually put some rounds through this thing. Otherwise I will have to wait until the base pads come off back order.

[CBags04]

Did you bead blast it with the Melonite still there, or was it stripped to bare metal first?

[CHA-LEE]

The stock black finish was bead blasted off after the slide cuts were made.

[RWF]

WOW

[Avezorak]

Damn Charlie, that is wicked looking. I really like it. Very anxious to hear your range report.

[NoSteel]

Now that, is a lightened slide...... I'm going to have to get mine off the safe door now and start cuttin!!!!

[hanexp]

Awesome looking gun, Cha-lee. Can't wait to see you shred a stage with it!

[promod1385]

That slide looks awesome! Can you please PM me contact info for the smith who did the slide cutting? I am looking at building a Limited Major 40L this winter. I would really like to have him work my slide over if I head down this road.

[CHA-LEE]

I was able to put about 200 rounds through this bad boy over the weekend. Lucky for me it was perfectly sighted in and didn’t need any adjustments. Centering the sights in the dove rails seems to always get it perfectly sighted in. This is the third M&P that I put sights on and it ended up shooting dead on by simply centering the sights in the dove tails. I thinks its really cool to be able to simply center the sights in the dove tails and its dead on.

On the first test session I had a couple light strikes which is some what expected because I took four coils off of the APEX Competition striker spring which makes it really light but also can lead to light strikes. I swapped it out for a new APEX Competition striker spring with two coils cut off and it ran fine without any other light strikes. I also had to modify the sear a little bit to move the trigger back a little bit in the trigger guard because it was a little too far forward for my liking.

After making those changes to the trigger and striker spring it was running like a champ. I was shooting minor Power Factor 200gr CMJ Montana Gold Bullets with 3.1gr of Clays powder and an OAL of 1.14 and it shot pretty soft with very little muzzle flip. I made this bullet load for my ladies 4 inch M&P to make Minor PF so I am sure they are a little faster out of this 5 inch barrel. I may be able to get away with using 3.0gr of powder and achieve the same FPS as the 4 inch gun. I also want to experiment with using 180gr FMJ Zero bullets to see how that changes the felt recoil.

I was only able to use a stock 15 round magazine with the base pad really chopped up so it would fit inside the magwell so I am yet to really feel the balance of the gun with a high cap 20 round magazine. But so far it handles and shoots pretty good. Its very light compared to my steel frame EAA Witness Limited though and it feels quite a bit different when shooting simply due to the reduced weight. With it being 20oz lighter than the EAA Witness Limited it feels like I am shooting a plastic squirt gun. The weight difference in its self is going to take a while to get use to.

The only thing that I feel like I have to improve is the trigger reset distance. I want to get the trigger break, position, and travel distance as close to my EAA Witness Limited as possible. Right now the position and trigger break are fine, but the reset distance is a little bit more than my EAA so that needs some work. The longer reset distance forces me to row my finger backwards more than I am use to in order to reset the trigger so its harder to shoot at the same speed as my EAA. If I can’t run the trigger as fast or faster than my EAA then this project is not going to work for its intended use. In order to shooting Limited Minor I HAVE TO be able to shoot faster. If the longer reset distance can’t be reduced this project may reach a dead end.

But I still have quite a bit of testing to do with loads and trigger setups so I am not ruling this thing out just yet. It’s really fun to shoot and I am going to have my lady give it a try to see if she likes how it shoots as well. In a worse case scenario I will just use it as a Limited minor gun for her to use when she wants to shoot.

[CHA-LEE]

I also wanted to add that during one of the practice sessions I shot with a friend that had a box stock Glock 17 using factory 9mm 115gr FMJ ammo. I shot his gun back to back compared to my M&P and the Glock had significantly more felt recoil and muzzle flip. I think that the increased muzzle flip had a lot to do with it not having a magwell to leverage against or grip tape to get a more solid grip on the gun. But the felt recoil was significantly increased on the Glock. I think this was good comparison of how light bullet 9mm Minor PF ammo compares to how heavy bullet .40 Minor PF ammo shoots.

Edited July 5, 2011 by CHA-LEE

[CBags04]

I was able to put about 200 rounds through this bad boy over the weekend. Lucky for me it was perfectly sighted in and didn’t need any adjustments. Centering the sights in the dove rails seems to always get it perfectly sighted in. This is the third M&P that I put sights on and it ended up shooting dead on by simply centering the sights in the dove tails. I thinks its really cool to be able to simply center the sights in the dove tails and its dead on.

On the first test session I had a couple light strikes which is some what expected because I took four coils off of the APEX Competition striker spring which makes it really light but also can lead to light strikes. I swapped it out for a new APEX Competition striker spring with two coils cut off and it ran fine without any other light strikes. I also had to modify the sear a little bit to move the trigger back a little bit in the trigger guard because it was a little too far forward for my liking.

After making those changes to the trigger and striker spring it was running like a champ. I was shooting minor Power Factor 200gr CMJ Montana Gold Bullets with 3.1gr of Clays powder and an OAL of 1.14 and it shot pretty soft with very little muzzle flip. I made this bullet load for my ladies 4 inch M&P to make Minor PF so I am sure they are a little faster out of this 5 inch barrel. I may be able to get away with using 3.0gr of powder and achieve the same FPS as the 4 inch gun. I also want to experiment with using 180gr FMJ Zero bullets to see how that changes the felt recoil.

I was only able to use a stock 15 round magazine with the base pad really chopped up so it would fit inside the magwell so I am yet to really feel the balance of the gun with a high cap 20 round magazine. But so far it handles and shoots pretty good. Its very light compared to my steel frame EAA Witness Limited though and it feels quite a bit different when shooting simply due to the reduced weight. With it being 20oz lighter than the EAA Witness Limited it feels like I am shooting a plastic squirt gun. The weight difference in its self is going to take a while to get use to.

The only thing that I feel like I have to improve is the trigger reset distance. I want to get the trigger break, position, and travel distance as close to my EAA Witness Limited as possible. Right now the position and trigger break are fine, but the reset distance is a little bit more than my EAA so that needs some work. The longer reset distance forces me to row my finger backwards more than I am use to in order to reset the trigger so its harder to shoot at the same speed as my EAA. If I can’t run the trigger as fast or faster than my EAA then this project is not going to work for its intended use. In order to shooting Limited Minor I HAVE TO be able to shoot faster. If the longer reset distance can’t be reduced this project may reach a dead end.

But I still have quite a bit of testing to do with loads and trigger setups so I am not ruling this thing out just yet. It’s really fun to shoot and I am going to have my lady give it a try to see if she likes how it shoots as well. In a worse case scenario I will just use it as a Limited minor gun for her to use when she wants to shoot.

What kind of primers were you using when getting the light strikes? If you weren't using Federals you may want to try some of those as they are a little softer.

[CHA-LEE]

CBags04> I am using CCI Standard Small Pistol primers. I have thought about using Federal primers as they are softer, but I don't know if its worth the cost to stock up on them. I am already sitting on about 50K of CCI and Winchester primers so I am already heavily stocked. Getting what I have to work properly makes more sense to me than getting more primers for a special purpose. After swapping the APEX Striker Spring it has been working great so I don't think its going to be an issue any more.

[latech15]

Cha-Lee, I have seen your videos, do you really think that the gun (eaa) is slowing you down? You have some of the fastest splits of anyone I have seen. I understand wanting a new gun/project, but I find it really hard to believe that your splits are the area where you need improvement. You are a big boy as well. Are the extra 20 something ounces an issue?

If it is the "project" and the desire to go to as polymer gun for some reason, then I get it but your comment about going faster befuddles me.