AzShooter Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 If you see that there are changes to a gun and were told of them before you opened it would you automatically repair the weapon or give it back to the original owner? Do you have a liability to not let it back out of the shop before doing all the work or can you just let it be and explain what is needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbleeye Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Without the owners authorization in writing and a list of the repairs to be done on that authorization, it would not be repaired in my business. So I guess I would give it back to the owner and hope he did not sell or trade it to someone in the unsafe condition, but we all know there are people who would and to many people that don't know what they are buying has problems till it acts up on them and they take it in for repair and find out they have been cheated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I'd tell them what's wrong and if they don't automatically ask to have it fixed, I would talk them into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I'd tell them what's wrong and if they don't automatically ask to have it fixed, I would talk them into it. +1. If they still said no they would be signing a notice that I told them of the problem and they refused to have it fixed. I would cover my ass six ways from Sunday on this one. Probably have a third party present to witness everything. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 (edited) I'd tell them what's wrong and if they don't automatically ask to have it fixed, I would talk them into it. +1. If they still said no they would be signing a notice that I told them of the problem and they refused to have it fixed. I would cover my ass six ways from Sunday on this one. Probably have a third party present to witness everything. Pat This would be an OK way , but just as good is print out the discription of unsafe parts rite on the invoice that they pay from. or that says no work done on the gun zero charges ( Gun Returend With Out side in place) so that they have to put the slide back on to shoot it. If a plumber is working on a home and sees an old Gas non-vented wall heater = he must cap off the gas line to that unit before he leaves National code. Edited May 15, 2011 by AlamoShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I suppose it would depend upon the nature of said defiency. If it were a pinned grip safety for instance, i might be inclined to note a little disclaimer on the invoice to CYA. If it were a more serious safety concern, i would still make a mention on the invoice and try to talk him into repairs, either by you or the manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Pat's ass would need a lot to cover it six ways to Sunday! If you check the gun in, log it and note the issues, dialog with the owner you are now able to CYA-Can You Articulate! This does not prevent the liability to come back to you. Yes, I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV. I have written a few governmental regulations and statutes to understand the fundamentals. There are ambulance chasers which would promote "you touched it, you modified it, you are respsonsible for it" This includes work you did not do to repair the gun in good safe working order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 You can't hold someone else's property for ransom even if it is safety related. I sure wouldn't do anything else to it give it back as you found it and have them sign a receipt that they know it is unsafe. On the other hand if you send a firearm back to most manufacturers for any kind of service, and they for instance find a trigger job done, they will put it back to original before sending it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 The gun was my gun. I had done a trigger job to it and it has been well used. Aboutg 60000 rounds through it. The new guy picked it up, checked it out and said he wanted it. Called me next day to make sure it was still available and picked it up. I told him about the hammer modification. I didn't know of any other problems because it's been my competition revolver for over the past year. Been working fine for me. It was a package deal with the 6 in 686, Pachmeyer Holster, Moon Mountain six slot holder for Comp IIIs or Jetloaders, 9 jetloaders tuned and cut down for faster action,Reloading block all for $600. Everything I usesd for Classic Division in ICORE. His biggest problem was the way the hammer was cut. It's a replica of the old PPC style hammer as is done by one of the forum members. I let him notic it, told him about it . Once he took it home, opened it up and found it not to his liking he made modifications. I told him to just put it back in the condition it was it when he bought it and I would give him his money back but he refuses to do that. Says that the trigger is negligent. I'm allow to do trigger work on my gun I'm also allowed to sell it with that work and back it with a full refund if customer is not satisfied but this guy wound even explain what he wants from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenDot Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Once he took it home, opened it up and found it not to his liking he made modifications. I told him to just put it back in the condition it was it when he bought it and I would give him his money back but he refuses to do that. Says that the trigger is negligent. I'm allow to do trigger work on my gun I'm also allowed to sell it with that work and back it with a full refund if customer is not satisfied but this guy wound even explain what he wants from me. Sounds like you went above and beyond the "A" level of customer service. If any modifications are completed after purchase it usually voids the warranty on pretty much anything you buy (to a point). Buyer bought the gun Buyer Modified the Gun Buyer declined refund EPIC FAIL on Buyers part and you are not in the wrong, you made attempts to make it correct. Now it's his problem to fix, repair or do whatever he wants with it... Good on you though for the effort though!! If it was me..DECLINED from first Mod attemp he made, any alterations voids my warranty on ANYTHING I sell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vxhybrid Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I agree that you went above and beyond, by telling him that if he returned it to how you sold it then you would give him a refund. Like opendot said, he bought it, he then modified it, and now he is not happy? No gun manufacture would offer a refund after someone modifies their firearm(unless the issue resided somewhere else) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricTheGunsmith Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 If you see that there are changes to a gun and were told of them before you opened it would you automatically repair the weapon or give it back to the original owner? Do you have a liability to not let it back out of the shop before doing all the work or can you just let it be and explain what is needed? i would gust repair it and worry about it if it was unrepairable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenD Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 My understanding is the last person to work it (or the last shops liability policy) is the entity held liable for a safety failure. If someone brings a firearm into the schoolhouse (CST) with a safety failure and they decide they don't want to pay to fix the safety failure, claim they're going to turn it into a wallhanger or some other such display piece, we disable it and thoroughly document it. Usually grind the firing pin down to 0.0" portrusion so it can't detonate a primer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 My understanding is the last person to work it (or the last shops liability policy) is the entity held liable for a safety failure. If someone brings a firearm into the schoolhouse (CST) with a safety failure and they decide they don't want to pay to fix the safety failure, claim they're going to turn it into a wallhanger or some other such display piece, we disable it and thoroughly document it. Usually grind the firing pin down to 0.0" portrusion so it can't detonate a primer. That could be fun for a lawyer, unless you also provide a replacement firing pin. Documentation is fine, working on a gun when the owner has turned down the work, is another whole story..... Needed the gun, went to fire it, it wouldn't fire, was seriously chewed up by a dog as a result -- think that couldn't come back to bite your liability policy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenD Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I can double check the policy, but the owner is well aware that their firearm is disabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griz Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 You might want to talk to a lawyer who has experience in this area. There is no liability if you give the gun back unaltered and inform the customer that it is unsafe and you will not work on it. On the other hand, you are on the hook for destroying the customer's property if you hack on it to render it inert without permission. You would lose that one every single time in small claims court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepercaprice1 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I'd tell them what's wrong and if they don't automatically ask to have it fixed, I would talk them into it. +1. If they still said no they would be signing a notice that I told them of the problem and they refused to have it fixed. I would cover my ass six ways from Sunday on this one. Probably have a third party present to witness everything. Pat That's what I would do. When I was younger I fixed a lot of cars for friends, neighbors, etc. If I found an unsafe item they didn't want fixed, I made them sign an aknowledgement form before they took the car saying that they were advised of the unsafe condition and refused proper repairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooter57 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 If they don't want it fixed,give it back and refuse to do any work on that gun unless they want to pay you to fix what you feel is unsafe. maybe you just want to make some extra $$$ for something you feel is unsafe. If my gun was disabled without my written consent my lawyer would make some money and I'd have a new gun at the least. Plus I'd want to be compensated for loss use of said gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenD Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 You sign said agreement when you turn your firearm over to the school along with a waiver limiting liability claims to $200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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