GSWEAR Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I was wondering who has read the Random Shots article in the current Tactical Journal and if so what your thoughts were on the need to eliminate the revolver divisions and add another pistol division? Myself since I just switched to revo's two months ago and I don't care for the idea and over the last few years I've shot CDP, ESP and SSP and never really seen a need for another pistol division. I'm curious to other peoples thoughts and opinions? Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4045 Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 What division is left? Actually loading a mag to capacity? I haven't read the article yet. I have a revolver and would like to eventually shoot a match in revo division. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirveyr Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I haven't received the Tactical Pamphlet yet, but it should arrive any day now. Other than lack of participation, what is it hurting to have SSR and ESR? Maybe they are going to recognize BUG at all matches? I look forward to reading the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Model19 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 What!? I've not seen that yet. If they ditch all revo, I quit. That would be SO foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberiad Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) What does "the need to eliminate the revolver divisions" mean? Who needs to do this? Why would IDPA need to do this? I have not seen the article but I assume it's simply one person's opinion, who, I am guessing, has never shot a revolver in a match. I read a few years ago Bill Wilson shot a revolver at the Nationals in an effort to get more revolver shooters to participate in the sport. I can't imagine what purpose it would serve. Edited May 9, 2011 by cyberiad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Let's face it: Revolvers are state of the art pieces of self defense/home defense/LEO equipment (in most circumstances). I think the revo divisions should be absorbed into the other divisions, so that the revos can compete head to head with autos...and kick their asses! Koski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Model19 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I beat two 1911's and a CZ yesterday at a local match with my SSR SW19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehorn Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) I haven't gotten my tac journal yet either, but I see no need to eliminate either revolver division. Not to offend, but unfortunately I do think both divisions are just barely clinging to relevance, at least based on participation, but that doesn't mean they need to be eliminated. I'll reserve further comments until after I actually read the article Edited May 10, 2011 by davehorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I agree with Davehorn. We get very low participation in the revolver divisions, but I see no compelling need to drop them. Koski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jar Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 From what I see around New England, the revo divisions are on the rise. Of course, that's probably skewed by Bones' tireless evangelism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 If we're going to change the divisions, by deleting some and adding others, or by reevaluating the requirements of the existing divisions, there are needs a lot more pressing than getting rid of revolvers! I do think that turning what was already the least-shot division - SSR - into two divisions was not going to make revolver shooting more popular, but only dilute what competition there was. Maybe SSR and BUG could be combined into a single, new division, for the purposes of including it in major matches? Six shots, minor power, with 4" barrels for revos and 3.5" for autos? I generally shoot two or three matches each year in ESR (and bought Auto Rim brass and slow loaders so I could shoot SSR, some day), so would not want to see it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jar Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 What pressing issues do you see with the divisions? I think they're fine as they are. Pretty much everything has a place it can be shot reasonably competitively. The only thing I might change is allow other calibers into CDP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Model19 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) I've run into this "let's make new divisions" before when I was involved in vintage bike roadracing. You simply end up with the same basic number of entrants split into more classes with lower total entries per class. Everybody has a pet shooter (or bike) that they really like but for some reason it's not competitive in the existing class structure. Often the performance is more due to the shooter (or rider) than anything else, but they press for a newer "fairer" class. If the class gets invented they and a very few buddies run in it and the numbers in the old class drop accordingly. No new bodies showed up, they just split the pie differently. From my bike experience I learned this hardline attitude. This is a game. If you are primarily concerned with winning, you do your homework to figure out what gun (or bike) has historically and currently performed best in the final results and has the least amount of disadvantages...and you buy that gun (or bike) to use in the game. You don't try to massage a poor performer into a winner. You start with the best option. Unless, that is, if what you really like is the challenge of making a workhorse into a racehorse for some perverse reason. So then you do the hard work and practice practice practice. But you don't try to change the game to suit your own personal quirks. Being all the way at the end of the USPS delivery system I will not see that article for several more days, so if I'm off base here I apologize. I'm just going by what I sense to be happening from reading these posts. Geoff Edited May 9, 2011 by Model19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Ohh no!attack of the eight shot supers on unsuspecting ESP shooters? Or just plain minor 625s? Hardly seems like a fair fight. The revolver hasn't got all those cute failures to this and that...and it doesn't fit in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBorland Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I haven't gotten my tac journal yet either, but I see no needto eliminate either revolver division. Not to offent, but unfortunately I do think both divisions are just barely clinging to relevance, at least based on participation, but that doesn't mean they need to be eliminated. I'll be interesting in reading the article, but I'm wondering if the gist isn't more along the lines of combining ESR & SSR back into a single division, rather than eliminating revolvers altogether. Relevance? Check out this gem from a recent "IDPA gaming" thread: From: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1298&st=75 By the way' date=' the guy that wins every match he shows up to in our group wins EVERY time. He's even taken a procedural and won. With his revolver. And he's not "gaming" to do it, he's just plain accurate, fast and efficient. So the best gaming advice seems to be the older advice - hit the zeros REALLY fast.[/quote']Maybe by IDPA proportions there's a "relevance" issue, but don't let your guard down, lest a wheelgunner sneak up on you. I've run into this "let's make new divisions" before when I was involved in vintage bike roadracing. Vintage road bike racing?! Cool! Can I play? My 1982 12-speed Campy Super Record Colnago is hanging in my garage! Toe clips? Wool shorts & jersey? Leather hairnet? check, check, check and check. A mullet? Working on it. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSWEAR Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 Dang guys! I got my Tactical Journal last Thursday I think and thought I was being polite and waited a couple days to start the thread so everyone would have their copy . Guess I should have scanned it and posted it when I started the thread. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Model19 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Vintage road bike racing?! Cool! Can I play? My 1982 12-speed Campy Super Record Colnago is hanging in my garage! Toe clips? Wool shorts & jersey? Leather hairnet? check, check, check and check. A mullet? Working on it. Tom That was vintage motorcycle racing. But I hear you on the woolies and campy stuff. Don't forget the downtube shifters, friction of course. In our case it was black leathers, two-stroke 350's and skinny tires. Probably why I shoot old blued revo's too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Burtchell Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Man, several of the articles in this issue are either outright negative or depressing. Geeez !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S391 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I'm having a hard time understanding why he even cares about the revolver division... I suppose I could see if a handful of revo shooters were taking home all the prize money.... or if IDPA had to allocate a disproportionately high amount of resources to keep them running but neither seems to be the case. It doesn’t take up any extra time, money or resources to have the revolver divisions so why all the weeping and gnashing of teeth?? I suppose that IPA could do away with the revolver divisions if they wanted but I don’t see any upside for them. If they are trying to grow the sport and encourage people to join why would you want to eliminate a segment of the shooting population however small it may be? I wouldn’t want to be the guy that had to tell Jerry Miculkk that he couldn’t shoot his 625’s in IDPA any longer…… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 What pressing issues do you see with the divisions? I think they're fine as they are. Pretty much everything has a place it can be shot reasonably competitively. The only thing I might change is allow other calibers into CDP. I don't see any pressing issues with the divisions! But, if someone told me I could remake the divisions in the manner I'd like, I wouldn't touch ESR or SSR; the distinction between those two divisions is clearer than any of the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Model19 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 What pressing issues do you see with the divisions? I think they're fine as they are. Pretty much everything has a place it can be shot reasonably competitively. The only thing I might change is allow other calibers into CDP. I don't see any pressing issues with the divisions! But, if someone told me I could remake the divisions in the manner I'd like, I wouldn't touch ESR or SSR; the distinction between those two divisions is clearer than any of the others. Correct. Very easy definitions to follow in those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastmtnbiker33w Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I haven't gotten my tac journal yet either, but I see no needto eliminate either revolver division. Not to offent, but unfortunately I do think both divisions are just barely clinging to relevance, at least based on participation, but that doesn't mean they need to be eliminated. I'll be interesting in reading the article, but I'm wondering if the gist isn't more along the lines of combining ESR & SSR back into a single division, rather than eliminating revolvers altogether. Relevance? Check out this gem from a recent "IDPA gaming" thread: From: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1298&st=75 By the way' date=' the guy that wins every match he shows up to in our group wins EVERY time. He's even taken a procedural and won. With his revolver. And he's not "gaming" to do it, he's just plain accurate, fast and efficient. So the best gaming advice seems to be the older advice - hit the zeros REALLY fast.[/quote']Maybe by IDPA proportions there's a "relevance" issue, but don't let your guard down, lest a wheelgunner sneak up on you. I've run into this "let's make new divisions" before when I was involved in vintage bike roadracing. Vintage road bike racing?! Cool! Can I play? My 1982 12-speed Campy Super Record Colnago is hanging in my garage! Toe clips? Wool shorts & jersey? Leather hairnet? check, check, check and check. A mullet? Working on it. Tom Believe it or not, they actually have a retro category in some mountain bike races now. I guess it's for all the guys who never rode their bikes back in the day. The only reason I have a new bike is because I've broken everything previous to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Addressed by Joyce Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Aw, that's no fun. She could've really poured some gas on the fire. Koski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplesinglestack Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I read the article, as well as the rag, cover to cover, and was not very excited, I normally shoot SSR, or BUG(Glock 27 w/factory ammo) when shooting IDPA< I think they need to let the REVO divisions stay the same, however they need a BUG division that is recognized at normal matches, that would bring out all the "carry guns" I guarantee you would begin to see the J frames come out of the woodworks if they knew they did not have to compete against the 686 etc. also see alot more of the "sub-compact" pistols that we all carry, I do not think I have ever "carried" my G35 w fiber optic sights concealed.....but I see alot of them at the IDPA matches, w 125 PF ammo.....also I feel that anything w 165 PF should be allowed in CDP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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