Jeremiah Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 I'm looking for a solid, functional, no frills 1911 on a incredibly tight budget. I saw that Charles Daly has a very low priced 1911 this year. Does anyone know anything about them? I also keep hearing about this Rock Island 1911, good or bad? Both guns are under $400. Is there anything else out there I should be considering? I just found this site, looks like a good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 Gotta be honest about this.....I'm not enthusiastic about any 1911 under $600.00. You will probably end up putting at least $200-$300 into any of the ones you've mentioned within short order anyway. My advice is to save up some money and purchase a kimber or springfield armory loaded model. You will probably still want to sink a little more into either of these eventually but at least you will have a decent base to work from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 If it's cash you need to save, look at the used market. Bring somebody that knows what's up with 1911s and test-fire before buying if at all possible. You should be able to get a good brand with lots of life left for $400 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scandog Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 Save your money. Larry is correct. Going cheap up front is not always going to save you anything. You never specified a caliber. For a 9mm I would look at STI. I have a springfield loaded and the STI is much tighter fit out of the box. It seems youu get what you pay for. If you try to go cheap, that is what you tend to get. Good luck with your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 The best deal for a new 1911A1 is the Springfield, Inc. "Mil Spec" model, which you can find for a little under $400 in some places. Some of them are incredibly reliable, with one going straight from the box for well over 3000 rounds without cleaning (as reported on the 1911 Forums recently) before the fellow who was reporting stopped posting updates. It's a great bet for not a lot of money and if you choose, you can customize it later as you see fit. Another good option is to buy an old Argentine Sistema Modelo 1927. The are every bit a 1911A1 and very good, reliable guns. You should be able to find one for around $400 at places like http://www.cruffler.com . Much like the Springfield Mil Spec, they make an excellent platform for subsequent custom work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 Our club president owns a sporting goods store and he has a mil-spec SA for under $400.00. We were giving it the old once over and the trigger is decent and the fit seems good. A couple of the club members are shooting a mil-spec Springers and they are nuts reliable and seem to run with about anything. Of course, once you add decent sights, swap out the grip safety, etc. you would be in the same price range as a loaded model or a Kimber. I am with shred on this one. I would look into a used but not abused gun. If you could find a well cared for single stack from a guy upgrading to an S_I or the like, you could get a bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremiah Posted April 4, 2004 Author Share Posted April 4, 2004 Ok guys, I'm starting to see a pattern here. The mil spec by springfield is very reasonably priced. I could probably swing one of those. What would I have to spend on a good trigger, and what kind of trigger does everyone here recommend? I know about rifle triggers, jewel, timney, and the like, but who makes a good 1911 trigger? Is there any other on line classifieds that are good places to look other than cruffler, gunsamerica, and gunbroker? Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 SVI makes a great trigger, with a 1911 you need the hammer and sear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 This isn't what you want to hear, but, being me, I'm going to tell you anyway. Any new 1911 under $400 is basically a waste of money. It's going to cost you a couple hundred more to make it run right, and you'll still be stuck with a $400 pistol. Frankly, unless you're just incredibly lucky, your chances of finding a solid, used 1911 for under $400 are slim to none. (At least where I live. I've sold Colt series 70 junkers for $550 to dealers and they thought they were getting a real bargain.) So, Larry's right about the $600 mark. Knowing what I know now, I think the minimum for a truly trouble-free runnable 1911 is about $800-900. You absolutely want an S-7 hammer and sear, a ramped barrel (preferrably bull), and a *properly fitted* full-length guide rod. You're just not going to get that done right for less. Buy a used Glock for $350 and you won't have to fix anything. You can buy a used G17 or a G19 for that all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpaw dan Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 Ditto EricW---Kimber & glock are the way to go. I love a good 1911, but I have to admit they will test your patience. I'm a recent Glock convert after years of Colt's & S&W's that choke & vomit at the worst times. In short, if you must have a 1911, go Kimber ( Custom II ) if you are trully on a budget ( Believe me I understand BUDGET ) go with a Glock 17 ( used or new ). You won't regret it!!! SPDan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdmoore Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 You could add Auctionarms to your list of websites. Also, there are used pistols on gunboards. In addition to 1911forum (already mentioned) there is pistolsmith.com, thehighroad.org, and possible even ar15.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremiah Posted April 4, 2004 Author Share Posted April 4, 2004 OK, maybe I've come to grips with the fact that I can't get a good one cheap. If I'm going up to the six or seven hundred dollar level, what do I get? I'm not opposed to used. What would it cost me to get a springfield mil spec to run? That seems to be a solid base to work from. Are there any options out there in .40 sw? That's what I'm set up to load. Are there any obvious downsides to shooting a .40 in a 1911? By the way, I can't shoot a glock fast to save my life. That swept back backstrap causes me to shoot to high when I'm trying to be fast. It is something I'd have to get used to I guess. I hate to highjack my own thread, but I'm looking for another IDPA gun in general. I thought that a 1911 would be a cheap way to get a good gun, but maybe I was wrong. What's the most reliable gun out there, that isn't a glock, that would be competitive right out of the box, or maybe just a trigger job for IDPA, any class in a .40 or bigger. The 9's won't knock our clubs hinged steel targets over, which are way illegal, so a 9 won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 CZ ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 Right now on the USPSA site there is a Para P14 for 525.00 and a couple of .40 Para LDAs at very resonable prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 What would it cost me to get a springfield mil spec to run? That seems to be a solid base to work from. The Springfield mil spec should run just fine straight from the box. I've yet to hear of one produced in the last year or so that wasn't so reliable it was boring. That's why I recommended it. I'm not sure why some of the others dismiss the idea so quickly. You can get some really good shooting done with one of those things as it is. Now, there are a lot of things you can (and probably will) do to it when you form some personal preferences ... a high grip beavertail, better sights, mag well ... etc., but you don't really NEED any of those to shoot and shoot well. When you said you wanted a 1911 on a budget, I took it seriously and omitted all the extras! A used Springfield Loaded, Kimber, or Para-Ordnance is also a good deal, but you're still going to be spending more up front than you would for a new mil spec. Heck, if you can find a gently used mil spec, you might get an even better deal. Are there any options out there in .40 sw? That's what I'm set up to load. A few of them make .40 guns ... STI, Kimber, Springfield, Para-Ordnance ... I don't know of any that are in the "bargain" range, though. If you're going to shoot .40 right away, a Glock might be a better bet in terms of cost effectiveness. Are there any obvious downsides to shooting a .40 in a 1911? In some single stack guns, it can sometimes be a chore to get magazines that work well with the specific gun and load, especially if you want to load 10+1 rounds. The easiest "fix" is to get Tripp Cobra mags, but those are about $45 each! I hate to highjack my own thread, but I'm looking for another IDPA gun in general. I thought that a 1911 would be a cheap way to get a good gun, but maybe I was wrong. Don't give up so easily! Give the Springfield Mil Spec or an old Sistema Modelo 1927 a try. If you don't like it, you can always sell it for pretty close to what you paid for it. What's the most reliable gun out there, that isn't a glock, that would be competitive right out of the box, or maybe just a trigger job for IDPA, any class in a .40 or bigger. The 9's won't knock our clubs hinged steel targets over, which are way illegal, so a 9 won't work. You could always go with a revolver ... a four inch S&W 686 or 19/66 would be a good option. You should be able to find either for less than $300 used. A CZ75 in .40 would be a good choice too, if your fingers are long enough to reach the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 A CZ75 in .40 would be a good choice too, if your fingers are long enough to reach the trigger. The CZ is a good choice even if you do have short fingers. You can get the SA model which has a flat trigger with a shorter length of pull for about $400. It also has ambi safeties and the one I just bought came with a high cap mag. -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Another good option is to buy an old Argentine Sistema Modelo 1927. The are every bit a 1911A1 and very good, reliable guns. You should be able to find one for around $400 at places like http://www.cruffler.com . Much like the Springfield Mil Spec, they make an excellent platform for subsequent custom work. The problem with this approach is that the quality of heat treating on the steel in these old guns is not nearly up to modern standards. I wouldn't expect much in the way of long-term durability with one of these guns, certainly not with the amount of ammo a competition shooter fires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 You absolutely want an S-7 hammer and sear, a ramped barrel (preferrably bull), and a *properly fitted* full-length guide rod. You're just not going to get that done right for less. In .45 ACP - which is what, reading the question, Jeremiah is looking at - honestly I'm not much of a fan of a ramped barrel. In the medium bores (9mm, .38 Super and its kin, even .40 S&W) I believe a ramped barrel can make the gun more reliable. In .45 ACP - and I've discussed this issue with numerous GOOD pistolsmiths who have the same opinion - it makes it less reliable. In .45 ACP land I'm a traditional set-up kinda guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 The Springfield mil spec should run just fine straight from the box. I've yet to hear of one produced in the last year or so that wasn't so reliable it was boring. That's why I recommended it.I'm not sure why some of the others dismiss the idea so quickly. You can get some really good shooting done with one of those things as it is. If I had to buy a "budget" 1911, I do believe I'd go Springfield Mil-Spec, myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 In .45 ACP - and I've discussed this issue with numerous GOOD pistolsmiths who have the same opinion - it makes it less reliable. In .45 ACP land I'm a traditional set-up kinda guy. Wow. All my non-ramped 45's have sucked, big time. I never want another one without a ramped barrel again. Of course, all my ramped guns have been in 40.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremiah Posted April 5, 2004 Author Share Posted April 5, 2004 Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the sprinfield mil spec a non-ramped gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdmoore Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 What's the most reliable gun out there, that isn't a glock, that would be competitive right out of the box, or maybe just a trigger job for IDPA, any class in a .40 or bigger. The 9's won't knock our clubs hinged steel targets over, which are way illegal, so a 9 won't work. You might have more luck with a hotter 9mm load? Other .40 cal options: I'd think there are lots of options here. I have great luck with an XD40. I love my p99 (in 9mm, but I'd guess that the 40 is as good.) You want browning you could consider a high power. Sigs, CZ, Steyr, S&W610, ... the list of affordable pistols is long. On a side note, I'd have to say I've yet to see anyone compete well with an H&K tho, and they are not affordable. ) Back to the thread topic. It's hard to tell how much you NEED to save money, but if it's extreme I'd say find a XD40 so that you could reload for it. I've heard stories of glock owners who shoot the XD much better. If you can go a bit more and want to do the 1911, the springfield would allow you to get into the game a little bit at a time. You could buy the base gun and some .45 dies, shoot it like crazy and decide how many mods make sense (given your budget). But remember, you now have .02 cents less to spend on shooting. And I take paypal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 The CZ is a good choice even if you do have short fingers. You can get the SA model which has a flat trigger with a shorter length of pull for about $400. It also has ambi safeties and the one I just bought came with a high cap mag. -ld Heh, I guess it depends on the shooter. I can almost reach the trigger okay on those, but I don't have a prayer of reaching the thumb safety with my strong hand thumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the sprinfield mil spec a non-ramped gun? You are correct. The Mil Spec is a pretty close copy of the actual 1911A1 gov't model, with the same type of barrel and the ramp on the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 For the $400 range in in an IDPA gun (any type), you have to be looking at a Glock, Springfield XD, used Beretta, or some such reliable duty type gun. But you said you didn't like Glocks (shooting wise), so.... In a 1911 platform, I think just about everyone is in consensus that rather spend $400, spend $600 and get a Loaded Springfield, or a basic Kimber Custom. For the money, its hard to beat one of those. But for a .40, you'll be narrowed down to the Springfield in that price range. I saw a guy on www.gunsamerica.com that had a .40 Springfield 1911 Loaded with an adj. sight, Stainless, etc. w/ 6 or 7 .40 mags, magwell, for about $600 not to long ago.... shop around, you can get some good deals. If you really want to save your pennies, a Kimber Target, STI SS .40, or one of the new Sig 1911s, or S&W 1911s would be cool for the $750-1000 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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