Help me design my first 1911

[John Tuley]

Hello 1911 gurus,

I'm looking to buy my first 1911, after shooting Berettas and HKs for the last few years. I'm looking to find a .40 for competition (USPSA single stack) and carry. Let's assume that I'm stubborn and my mind is made up to go with some sort of .40 single stack, to keep the discussion simple. My basic requirements are the following:

• 5" bbl, .40 caliber
  
• crisp, smooth trigger; around 4lb with short travel but a long insert (is that the right word?) for my monkey fingers (Note: I recently lacerated the flexor tendon of my weak-hand trigger finger, so a "good" trigger really is a necessity.)
  
• runs factory ammo (JHP for carry and FMJ until I can afford a reloader)
  
• slim magwell (S&A, Techwell carry model, or similar that keeps the "natural" profile of the grips)
  
• fiber front sight, black rears
  
• ambidextrous safety
  
• a rail would be nice but would be the first thing to ditch if the price shoots up
  

My gut feeling is to get a Trojan (so no rail) and have it worked over by one of the smiths with good reputations on this forum, but I'll consider anything in that general price vicinity. As I read and search on the forums, I'm seeing this fancy guide rod and that fancy hammer . . . but these seem like choices best made sometime later, when I have an idea of how the gun shoots and what each mod would do. I have a reasonable mechanical aptitude but have never worked on any of my guns (nor do I have the tools to do so), so I want this one to start off right (hence a good 'smith to start).

My question (which I didn't find satisfactorily answered in my searches) is the following: knowing what you know today, and my list above, what work would you have done to the gun before you ever touched it? What would you wait and change yourself and/or send it back in to get done? I don't have an exact budget, but let's try to keep it in the neighborhood of a Trojan plus the planned trigger work and magwell. Magazines and accessories are a separate question, which have been rather nicely covered elsewhere.

Thanks for your input and assistance,

-- John

[whatsupglock]

The Trojan is a great choice. I've got one in 9mm and I like it very much. The components on the Trojan are top notch just the way they are, and if later, you want to make changes, you can. I like the smith and alexander magwells. I had one on my gun, but it was too heavy and it had to go. The gun didn't make weight for competition. I now have a wilson combat slip on well and it works fine. The 9mm Trojan has a ton of weight in the barrel compared to the 40 and 45.

You can get the gun with a fixed or adjustable rear sight, and it comes with a front fiber optic. You can buy the gun and shoot it as is. STI's customer service is top notch too, if you ever have a problem.

[JakeMartens]

I picked up a Trojan last year I have had

-Keonig Hammer and Sear for a 3lb trigger job

-Smith & Alexander Magwell, blended

-Smith & Alexander Grips double diamond checkered

-Skate board tape the front strap

-16 pound Nowlin Recoil Spring

-Adding an Ed Brown extended (no button) mag release

-Adding ambi safeties

Still may change out the beavertail, the one on there is loose fitted, functions fine.

I really like the feel of the gun with the under cut trigger guard, accuracy is very good, lock up is tight, no movement in the barrel when locked up, just a hint of play in the slide to frame fit with +3k rounds thru it

[Wild Gene]

The Duty One has a light rail.

[Powder Finger]

I picked up a Trojan last year I have had

-Keonig Hammer and Sear for a 3lb trigger job

-Smith & Alexander Magwell, blended

-Smith & Alexander Grips double diamond checkered

-Skate board tape the front strap

-16 pound Nowlin Recoil Spring

-Adding an Ed Brown extended (no button) mag release

-Adding ambi safeties

Still may change out the beavertail, the one on there is loose fitted, functions fine.I really like the feel of the gun with the under cut trigger guard, accuracy is very good, lock up is tight, no movement in the barrel when locked up, just a hint of play in the slide to frame fit with +3k rounds thru it

I did a Spartan with the same condition and put a Brown on and had to fit slightly. much better fit.

It really bugs me when beavertails move around.

Edited March 16, 2011 by Powder Finger

[Powder Finger]

Hello 1911 gurus,

I'm looking to buy my first 1911, after shooting Berettas and HKs for the last few years. I'm looking to find a .40 for competition (USPSA single stack) and carry. Let's assume that I'm stubborn and my mind is made up to go with some sort of .40 single stack, to keep the discussion simple. My basic requirements are the following:

• 5" bbl, .40 caliber
  
• crisp, smooth trigger; around 4lb with short travel but a long insert (is that the right word?) for my monkey fingers (Note: I recently lacerated the flexor tendon of my weak-hand trigger finger, so a "good" trigger really is a necessity.)
  
• runs factory ammo (JHP for carry and FMJ until I can afford a reloader)
  
• slim magwell (S&A, Techwell carry model, or similar that keeps the "natural" profile of the grips)
  
• fiber front sight, black rears
  
• ambidextrous safety
  
• a rail would be nice but would be the first thing to ditch if the price shoots up
  

My gut feeling is to get a Trojan (so no rail) and have it worked over by one of the smiths with good reputations on this forum, but I'll consider anything in that general price vicinity. As I read and search on the forums, I'm seeing this fancy guide rod and that fancy hammer . . . but these seem like choices best made sometime later, when I have an idea of how the gun shoots and what each mod would do. I have a reasonable mechanical aptitude but have never worked on any of my guns (nor do I have the tools to do so), so I want this one to start off right (hence a good 'smith to start).

My question (which I didn't find satisfactorily answered in my searches) is the following: knowing what you know today, and my list above, what work would you have done to the gun before you ever touched it? What would you wait and change yourself and/or send it back in to get done? I don't have an exact budget, but let's try to keep it in the neighborhood of a Trojan plus the planned trigger work and magwell. Magazines and accessories are a separate question, which have been rather nicely covered elsewhere.

Thanks for your input and assistance,

-- John

On the mag well. If a smith is doing some of the work anyway you might try this:

An STI 2011 metal mainspring housing, a Wilson low buck under grip well.

You cut most of the ears off the well that fit under the grip.

You end up cutting about a 1/2" out of the back of the frame (like a 2011 is).

weld the well to the M/S housing and blend.

What you end up with is a very long opening (appx 3/8" longer).

Just an idea, I always felt front to back on a 1911 was more important than side to side opening size.

[oak hill]

Hello 1911 gurus,

I'm looking to buy my first 1911, after shooting Berettas and HKs for the last few years. I'm looking to find a .40 for competition (USPSA single stack) and carry. Let's assume that I'm stubborn and my mind is made up to go with some sort of .40 single stack, to keep the discussion simple. My basic requirements are the following:

• 5" bbl, .40 caliber
  
• crisp, smooth trigger; around 4lb with short travel but a long insert (is that the right word?) for my monkey fingers (Note: I recently lacerated the flexor tendon of my weak-hand trigger finger, so a "good" trigger really is a necessity.)
  
• runs factory ammo (JHP for carry and FMJ until I can afford a reloader)
  
• slim magwell (S&A, Techwell carry model, or similar that keeps the "natural" profile of the grips)
  
• fiber front sight, black rears
  
• ambidextrous safety
  
• a rail would be nice but would be the first thing to ditch if the price shoots up
  

My gut feeling is to get a Trojan (so no rail) and have it worked over by one of the smiths with good reputations on this forum, but I'll consider anything in that general price vicinity. As I read and search on the forums, I'm seeing this fancy guide rod and that fancy hammer . . . but these seem like choices best made sometime later, when I have an idea of how the gun shoots and what each mod would do. I have a reasonable mechanical aptitude but have never worked on any of my guns (nor do I have the tools to do so), so I want this one to start off right (hence a good 'smith to start).

My question (which I didn't find satisfactorily answered in my searches) is the following: knowing what you know today, and my list above, what work would you have done to the gun before you ever touched it? What would you wait and change yourself and/or send it back in to get done? I don't have an exact budget, but let's try to keep it in the neighborhood of a Trojan plus the planned trigger work and magwell. Magazines and accessories are a separate question, which have been rather nicely covered elsewhere.

Thanks for your input and assistance,

-- John

On the mag well. If a smith is doing some of the work anyway you might try this:

An STI 2011 metal mainspring housing, a Wilson low buck under grip well.

You cut most of the ears off the well that fit under the grip.

You end up cutting about a 1/2" out of the back of the frame (like a 2011 is).

weld the well to the M/S housing and blend.

What you end up with is a very long opening (appx 3/8" longer).

Just an idea, I always felt front to back on a 1911 was more important than side to side opening size.

Very interesting idea. Do you have any pictures of completed magwells?

[John Tuley]

The Duty One has a light rail.

It's also almost $200 more (list prices); sure it includes the ambi safety but that's not a big ticket mod anyway. I'm not sure if I want the rail that badly; it would be good for the nightstand but I for $20 I added a bit of rail to my Nordic tube clamp, so now my M2 holds a light and is the primary-bump-in-the-night gun. So while it would be nice to have rails, I'm thinking it might be nicer to have $200 worth of ammunition instead.

ETA: the Duty One also has a 5" bull barrel, making it illegal for USPSA single stack. I suppose I could always shoot L10. That's a compromise I'll have to consider.

Thanks,

-- John.

Edited March 16, 2011 by John Tuley

[John Tuley]

I picked up a Trojan last year I have had

-Keonig Hammer and Sear for a 3lb trigger job

-Smith & Alexander Magwell, blended

-Smith & Alexander Grips double diamond checkered

-Skate board tape the front strap

-16 pound Nowlin Recoil Spring

-Adding an Ed Brown extended (no button) mag release

-Adding ambi safeties

Still may change out the beavertail, the one on there is loose fitted, functions fine.

I really like the feel of the gun with the under cut trigger guard, accuracy is very good, lock up is tight, no movement in the barrel when locked up, just a hint of play in the slide to frame fit with +3k rounds thru it

Jake,

Of that list, which things would you recommend a new-to-1911s shooter get right off the bat, and which should I hold off getting until I have a better feel for the gun and its foibles?

Thanks,

-- John.

[Powder Finger]

Hello 1911 gurus,

I'm looking to buy my first 1911, after shooting Berettas and HKs for the last few years. I'm looking to find a .40 for competition (USPSA single stack) and carry. Let's assume that I'm stubborn and my mind is made up to go with some sort of .40 single stack, to keep the discussion simple. My basic requirements are the following:

• 5" bbl, .40 caliber
  
• crisp, smooth trigger; around 4lb with short travel but a long insert (is that the right word?) for my monkey fingers (Note: I recently lacerated the flexor tendon of my weak-hand trigger finger, so a "good" trigger really is a necessity.)
  
• runs factory ammo (JHP for carry and FMJ until I can afford a reloader)
  
• slim magwell (S&A, Techwell carry model, or similar that keeps the "natural" profile of the grips)
  
• fiber front sight, black rears
  
• ambidextrous safety
  
• a rail would be nice but would be the first thing to ditch if the price shoots up
  

My gut feeling is to get a Trojan (so no rail) and have it worked over by one of the smiths with good reputations on this forum, but I'll consider anything in that general price vicinity. As I read and search on the forums, I'm seeing this fancy guide rod and that fancy hammer . . . but these seem like choices best made sometime later, when I have an idea of how the gun shoots and what each mod would do. I have a reasonable mechanical aptitude but have never worked on any of my guns (nor do I have the tools to do so), so I want this one to start off right (hence a good 'smith to start).

My question (which I didn't find satisfactorily answered in my searches) is the following: knowing what you know today, and my list above, what work would you have done to the gun before you ever touched it? What would you wait and change yourself and/or send it back in to get done? I don't have an exact budget, but let's try to keep it in the neighborhood of a Trojan plus the planned trigger work and magwell. Magazines and accessories are a separate question, which have been rather nicely covered elsewhere.

Thanks for your input and assistance,

-- John

On the mag well. If a smith is doing some of the work anyway you might try this:

An STI 2011 metal mainspring housing, a Wilson low buck under grip well.

You cut most of the ears off the well that fit under the grip.

You end up cutting about a 1/2" out of the back of the frame (like a 2011 is).

weld the well to the M/S housing and blend.

What you end up with is a very long opening (appx 3/8" longer).

Just an idea, I always felt front to back on a 1911 was more important than side to side opening size.

Very interesting idea. Do you have any pictures of completed magwells?

I'll take some pics and try to get them up in this thread. It's not very hard to do as long as you can acess a tig.

[pjb45]

It seems the dollar amount you want to invest is significantly less than a full custom.

As you can see, STI is a favorite for people on the forum. I do own a Trojan. I have put an additional amount of money into it; Wilson safties, SV trigger, C&S fire controls, Brown mainspring housing, Dawson FO. I do not shoot it very often anymore. It was $900 for the base pistol and a billion more in parts.

You can buy a Baer, Nowlin, and maybe Wilson for about the same as the base pistol with upgrades. To me these pistols will be a better investment in the long run. The guys that left Baer and Wilson also make good stuff; Rock River and Night Hawk.

If you go the upgrade route, Matt McLearn has a great rep! Ping GmanBart. I tend to recommend known smiths; Brazos, C&S, Mi2. There are other good smiths no doubt and I am not starting a flame war but I like recommending people I know personally.

Do not overlook Springfield Armory. They produce some great shooters at a reasonable price.

I had the money at the time to do a full custom and do not regret it one bit. If I was to do it over, I would buy either a Nowlin or Baer. These are bar stock recievers and great barrels with incredible accuracy.

Isn't one of the candidates running for USPSA President from CO. Talk with Jerry. Also there is a couple good smiths in upper west; Wyo and MT.

Edited March 16, 2011 by pjb45

[JakeMartens]

I picked up a Trojan last year I have had

-Keonig Hammer and Sear for a 3lb trigger job

-Smith & Alexander Magwell, blended

-Smith & Alexander Grips double diamond checkered

-Skate board tape the front strap

-16 pound Nowlin Recoil Spring

-Adding an Ed Brown extended (no button) mag release

-Adding ambi safeties

Still may change out the beavertail, the one on there is loose fitted, functions fine.

I really like the feel of the gun with the under cut trigger guard, accuracy is very good, lock up is tight, no movement in the barrel when locked up, just a hint of play in the slide to frame fit with +3k rounds thru it

Jake,

Of that list, which things would you recommend a new-to-1911s shooter get right off the bat, and which should I hold off getting until I have a better feel for the gun and its foibles?

Thanks,

-- John.

The magwell

[ck1]

I don't think you can get a better 1911 than the Trojan which is probably why it may seem sometimes that everyone on this forum owns/runs one, including myself. The fitting and components are really nice at any pricepoint in a pistol that's made to shoot more than be a trophy, the undercut-trigger-guard IMO even puts the Trojan's ahead a few other guns that cost a lot more.

.40 in a 1911 can be just as tricky as 9mm, if not more so, so going with a known quantity that has been proven to run is probably not a bad idea IMHO, plus STI makes more non-.45 1911-platform guns than anybody and will make sure you get a pistol that runs. Guns from Baer, Wilson, Nighthawk, etc are nice but most of the premium goes towards cosmetic stuff and a higher attention to detail in fine craftsmanship, performance-wise they're not much better, if any in my experience than a lowly Trojan, sheesh if a Spartan in .40 was available that might be a viable option too (though a ramped barrel in .40 or 9 sure doesn't hurt).

As far as upgrades that make the gun more personalized to what you like, you'd probably change the same stuff on any off the shelf 1911, a magwell set-up is really the most expensive add-on, triggers, beavertails and other little stuff isn't so expensive that they're cost-prohibitive to do over time as you decide what you want.

For example, SVI ITS trigger system costs about double any other 1911 trigger but even that is under $50 with an insert (highly recommend them too as being able to experiment a bit to find the trigger-reach that works best just plain rules), and a child could put one in. Most little stuff you can do yourself with a little initiative, google, and YouTube, only gets expensive if you're not comfortable doing it yourself.

Good luck.

[Jaxshooter]

I own several Wilson pistols and also own a Trojan. You can buy the Trojan and do anything you want to it and not come close to the price of a Wilson these days. The Wilson Classic is about $2700.00. The Baer is a great gun but you can upgrade the Trojan the way you want it for the difference in price. If I had it to do over I would buy a good base gun like the Trojan or Springfield and do it the way I want it. Just my opinion having compared them side by side.

[Bob DuBois]

I enjoy my Trojan also, it's in 9mm and like everyone else it tuned to the way I like it.

[ck1]

Should amend my earlier post, I meant: "I don't think you can get a better $1000.00 1911 than a Trojan..." - I'm not crazy, there are better 1911's for sure, but for the money, I don't know...

Edited March 17, 2011 by ck1

[Wild Gene]

Build one of these! http://www.predatortactical.com/Predator-Tactical-1911-Shrike-p65.html

It's only $2,765 more but comes with a tee shirt, training and a lifetime warranty!

As a side note, you can buy Remanufactured ammo from Atlanta Arms and Ammo that is loaded long (1.180 OAL) for $13/box, $260/case, plus shipping, and I honestly believe their reman. ammo is as good as many companies new. You may find you need the longer stuff to get it to feed 100% and a bit smoother.

Good luck,

WG

[John Tuley]

Build one of these! http://www.predatortactical.com/Predator-Tactical-1911-Shrike-p65.html

It's only $2,765 more but comes with a tee shirt, training and a lifetime warranty!

As a side note, you can buy Remanufactured ammo from Atlanta Arms and Ammo that is loaded long (1.180 OAL) for $13/box, $260/case, plus shipping, and I honestly believe their reman. ammo is as good as many companies new. You may find you need the longer stuff to get it to feed 100% and a bit smoother.

Good luck,

WG

You forgot the free range bag!

Thanks for the heads-up on Atlanta Arms.

[John Tuley]

To all,

Thanks for all the input so far. It seems like the majority opinion (though not everyone's) is that the Trojan would be a good choice for the money, and to get the magwell done right off and wait for everything else. I think I'll mostly go with that; my tendon injury leaves that weak-hand trigger finger a bit weak and unable to curl the last 30 degrees or so (only a couple months out, so still holding out some hope for PT). So I'm definitely getting a long trigger with short, smooth, light weight.

Everyone's input is much appreciated. As pjb45 pointed out, I definitely don't have the budget for a full-on custom job; a few upgrades to a Trojan is about all I can muster right now, and that's if I sell something (kidney, HK, whichever sells quicker) first. It's too bad for me because I was raised squarely in the "buy once, cry once" camp. I contacted Brazos a couple months ago and heard back that his shop has more business than he can handle with 2011s alone and he wasn't interested in upgrading a Trojan for me. Too bad for me! I'm doing my diligence and looking at the dealer forums to try to make a good choice of smith. My second hope is that it will be fun to learn more about the internals of this platform and start doing some upgrades myself. That's something I've never felt too comfortable about on my Italian and German pistols, but the 1911 has a lot of good information and parts . . . and plenty of guys who know what they're doing who'd be more than happy to fix my mistakes (for a price, of course)!

Thanks again,

-- John.

[Wild Gene]

If you want a gun that has kind of been gone through, don't overlook Dawson. I did, and wish I had when I purchased the Sentry.

If not, you will want to polish the ramp and check and probably tune the extractor at a minimum. I am not sold on the recoilmaster either. I haven't swapped that out of my Edge or Sentry yet, but I certainly intend on it. The only thing I ever really did to the edge was play with the mainspring, but the single stack .40's can be a little more picky. I think they definately need a break in period. When I first bought the Sentry, it would jam every other round with Wilson mags and standard length loads. It functions much better after 500 rounds, the polished ramp (BE has a good detail of that), tuned extractor (see Brazos' website), and using the longer AAA loads.

Good luck,

WG

[Powder Finger]

Mag well pics:

Pics 1-2 are from around 1991 and used a stock MSH welded to gain about a 1/4" depth.

Pics 2-4 are from around 1995 and used a stock MSH welded to get with in .100 of the spring slot.

Pics 5-9 are from around 2008 and used a STI2011 MSH just welded to magwell the out come is about the same as 1995 with a lot less work.

The last 2 pics are the parts from Dawson and Wilson.

A big atvantage to this is you end up with a flush fit at the rear between MSH/MW and the frame.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Singlestack
To remove pics by request of Powder Finger

[PistoleroJesse]

The Duty One has a light rail.

ETA: the Duty One also has a 5" bull barrel, making it illegal for USPSA single stack. I suppose I could always shoot L10. That's a compromise I'll have to consider.

I was cruising around one day and saw that shooter's connection has a Special Order Duty One with an option for bushing barrel. That should keep it on your list

Edited March 23, 2011 by PistoleroJesse

[calvary45]

Springfield TRP sent to thier custom shop with your likings added, also fantastic customer service

[John Tuley]

Springfield TRP sent to thier custom shop with your likings added, also fantastic customer service

Looks nice, except that I'm looking for a .40, not a .45.

Thanks,

-- John.

[briley1911]

Briley 1911 single stack, Claudio will build it like you want it. Put some ERGO grips on it, they're an AR accessories company but they make great feeling 1911 grips as well.