pater Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Hello all, I know this has been covered a lot, but couldn't find the answer I was looking for in a search. Just had my carrier welded by Jeff at C-Rums and added a Nordic 5 round extension and clamp. The gun is a m1s90 with 18.5" barrel and PG stock. Maybe 400-500 rounds thru the gun total. It had been running just fine with the federal bulk pack 7 1/2 shot and truball low recoil slugs, but after the mods, I'm having two very specific failure to feeds. The first one will hang the crest of the shell on the lip of the barrel after it's been lifting by the carrier. The bolt pushes the shell hard enough to cut the plastic as it tries to move forward. Is the "timing" off on the lifter or maybe pushing it up at the wrong angle? Second FTF is different. After firing, the empty shell is kicked out, but the next round never makes it in front of the bolt as it moves forward. It's almost as if the lifter never brought the next shell up. The bolt moves forward a few inches then binds up. It did it today with both the federal bulk ammo as well as some hotter winchester #4 shot. I hate making mods and end up going backwards, but my thumb was taking a beating. Is this a matter of having the gun "tuned" for the new lifter or possibly a spring issue. Thanks in advance, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 is the lifter reinstalled correctly? There was another case of a benelli built by a semi famous smith known and admired by many here that had some unusual cycling problems after the lifter was removed and welded up, and low and behold after much drama it comes to light that the lifter wasnt quite installed correctly after the mod. how sure are you...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pater Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) I was pretty sure until taking it to the range today. I jammed during our local match last weekend on a birdshot stage and I thought it was just the ammo. But after today I wonder if that small spring on the side of the carrier is out of place. Edited March 2, 2011 by pater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braxton1 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Other things to look at: - Benellis "can" get funny when they're heavy. I had a factory engineer tell me that the maximum weight of the gun should be less than 500 grams over factory-stock empty weight. Considering that shotshells weighs 56 grams each, 8 of them in the new longer tube is getting really close to 500g, not counting the additional weight of the tube itself. This is all because of the Benelli's Inertial Driven system, in which the gun has to freely move to the rear during the shot. Heaviness will dampen a lot of that rearward movement and can cause short-stroking. I had one that wouldn't cycle 00Buck 2 3/4 magnums when it was heavy. Lightened up, it will shoot the wimpiest birdshot loads. - Another cause of short-stroking is the PG stock. If the nut holding the stock on is too tight, it can slightly bend the recoil spring tube and cause a bind. Seen that one more than a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pater Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Thanks for the info on weight. I knew the benelli's were susceptible to added weight and had not added a side saddle for that reason. Didn't think about the tube. I had been running the gun in a 7+1 config before adding the nordic tube. Took the gun down and cleaned it again. Everything in the trigger group looks like it's correct and matches the manual diagram. I had pulled the stock but did not remove the recoil spring tube. Didn't see anything out of whack though. Will have to take another look. The inside was pretty dry, so lubed it up pretty good. The shells catching on the barrel edge is troubling. Are they normally that sharp? It's right at the small cut-out on the top right corner. I've wondered if the added material from the welded lifter is pushing the shell up at the wrong angle, causing it to hang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I have had a total of two malfunction with my M2 and it was right after having my carrier welded up. I kind of knew what the issue was, having read about it. The very end of the carrier needs to be tweaked, kind of rolled downward. Using the search I found old posts about it and gave mine the minor shape change. I believe the added length raises the shell a tiny bit too much. That sure sounds like your problem #1. You can kind of see the minor roll/angle change of the end if you blow this pic up. But I know there's other threads here with better photos. http://photos.imageevent.com/cas6969/guns/m2Port.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Ok several things here,Cas is right, the tip of the lifter needs to be bent down about 8 degrees. Put the lifter in a vice and put the tip in up to the 90 degree side angle that keeps the shells form rolling out to the right and then gently bend down 8 degrees or so. Next make sure that the lifter isn't too long and occationally rubbing on the back of the shells in the tube. Gently radius the extractor cut with 400 wet and dry or a round stone untill it isn't soo sharp. you shold be good. KurtM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pater Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) Copy that. Had a feeling the lifter was pushing the shell up a little too far. Will make the mods and report back. Thanks to everyone for the help. Edited March 3, 2011 by pater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoover 1 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I experienced a similar after I replaced my lifter with a welded up one. I felt that it was due to the low recoil ammo that I was testing. I think that I will return to the original lifter and see what happens. Thanks, Hoover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raysracer Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 i had an issue with shells catching on the barrel edge. I have at least 6-8 k shells thru my barrel. i figured that it was from wear. i filed the sharp edge, and haven't had a problem since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pater Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 i had an issue with shells catching on the barrel edge. I have at least 6-8 k shells thru my barrel. i figured that it was from wear. i filed the sharp edge, and haven't had a problem since. I've cleaned up the edge on the barrel as well as put a bit of an angle on the lifter. Will have to wait until this friday to see if I'm back up and running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoover 1 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I experienced a similar after I replaced my lifter with a welded up one. I felt that it was due to the low recoil ammo that I was testing. I think that I will return to the original lifter and see what happens. Thanks, Hoover I looked at my lifter today and the end was straight. Looks like I will remove it and "tweak" the end of a 8 degree downward "bend". Thanks, Hoover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pater Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Had Jeff at C-rums lighten my bolt and it hould be in the mail tomorrow. Also added a regular stock over the pistol grip. Will give a try once I get it back together and then go from there. If it runs well, I may try my luck again with the PG. I'll give everyone an update once I get back out to the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGC Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Ok several things here,Cas is right, the tip of the lifter needs to be bent down about 8 degrees. Put the lifter in a vice and put the tip in up to the 90 degree side angle that keeps the shells form rolling out to the right and then gently bend down 8 degrees or so. Next make sure that the lifter isn't too long and occationally rubbing on the back of the shells in the tube. Gently radius the extractor cut with 400 wet and dry or a round stone untill it isn't soo sharp. you shold be good. KurtM Kurt - Thank you for the information on this. My M2 has been malfunctioning like these guys describe, and I'm going to give my lifter a little bend tomorrow. I'd like to hear more about what you're talking about with modifying the radius on the extractor cut. Do you have any pictures or a couple more sentences to describe what you're doing? Thank you, sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 The cut out for the extractor is on the right side of the barrel as you look into the ejection port. It is VERY sharp and as the extractor hits it and rotates with the bolt into lock it can and does over a long period of time sharpen the edge where the cut out meets the chamber. This sharp edge can and will grab a shell with a bad crimp...(see all the complaining about Wally World multi-pac ammo in another thread). Take a very fine dremel bit OR use some 400 grit wet and dry sandpaper to bevel this sharp edge AWAY from the edge of the chamber, or more to the right of the barrel where you see the cut out. I don't have any pictures but if that doesn't make sense to you call Benny @ Triangle or Mike @ Accurate Iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Cannot believe you told someone to use a DREMEL tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 He did say "very fine dremel bit". I took this to mean "in your hand" as opposed to chucked up in the electric tool. Maybee I miss interpreted Kurts explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Cannot believe you told someone to use a DREMEL tool. we cant all use our good looks alone to work on guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyro Shooter Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) Dremels are for amateurs Fordham tools are a sign of a professional gunsmith (or a hack master whos ripped off enough customers to afford to look good at his table. Real pros use a Chicago electric they got a Harbor freight for $50.00. The guys on TV use a 10" body grinder Edited October 12, 2011 by Tyro Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelogic Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 The gun not loading a shell onto the carrier after firing a shell seems to be a common problem. One thing in common with everyone is a c-rums welded lifer. I started a thread on this a month or so ago. Suggestions were shortening/lengthening the mag spring and tuning the shell stop. I will try the bending of the lifter next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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