Trimming AR brass

[dskinsler83]

Hey guys since I just recently purchased my first Dillon 550B from here on the classifieds at a deal or should I say steal!! Lol I was wandering how often do u guys trim ur AR brass??? I've loaded it by single stage up till now and if I'm gonna hve to do it everytime I might as well continue to load that way right??

[D.Hayden]

Everytime. It's just easier than keeping track of what brass is what. And then I know all the brass is fairly consistent.

If you used an X-Base die, you could skip it, but you'd have to be really sure you were only reloading that brass.

[dskinsler83]

Well crap

[jmorris]

As above, everytime to keep it simple. I also anneal everytime if it's range brass as its faster than trying to sort or keep track.

[Gatekeeper]

I pick up all the brass I can find so I full length size on my single stage then set and lock my calipers at maximum case length.

Drop them all through(usually while watching the TV) and trim any that won't fit through the jaws, gives me an opportunity to look for split case necks as well as crimped primer pockets.

Trim & decrimp the ones the need it, deburr/chamfer. Give them a quick tumble to remove sizing lube, then use the progressive press for prime/powder/seat/crimp

Edited January 26, 2011 by Gatekeeper

[Chills1994]

you know how factory ammo say like from wally world comes in those styrofoam or plastic doo-hickeys that keep 20 rounds of rifle ammo organized in the box?

that's what I use to set my loaded .223 ammo in when I stripe them with a red laundry marker.

I stripe them because I I give my brass the RCBS X sizer die treatment. I full length resize, then trim them to 1.73"...then load them up and stripe them.

the next time they go through my 650 the RCBS X die is in the #1 location with its mandrel screwed down.

the mandrel keeps the brass from growing.

so it is about the closest I have come to treaTing rifle brass like straight walled semi auto pistol brass.

I use the possum hollow cutter/trimmer/toolholder chucked into a corded drill which is then clamped into a vise to do all my trimming on. it is slow going, but I try to entertain myself....put the ear buds in, put the ear muffs over that and listen to some tunes.

to see how the X die works go to RCBS.com and scroll through their videos.

the possum hollow cutter is adjustable and it indexes off the case"s shoulder. it's a lot like sticking a pencil in an electric pencil sharpener.

you can go to youtube and do a search for "wolverineatwork" and he'll show you how to use the PHC and the chamfering tool.

[davestarbuck]

I trim every time, the RT1200 is quick and easy combined with my 550.

-Dave

[Chills1994]

Yeah, I think I am going to have to save up my pennies for the Dillon 1200 trimmer. I have a case feeder equiped 650 and I would be all giddy about not having to handle each piece of brass by hand.

[trickpony]

The Giraud and Gracey trimmers are fabulous pieces as well... They trim AND chamfer inside and outside of the case neck vs. just trim.

[RiggerJJ]

the 1200 trims so clean that deburring/chamfering is not needed...

jj

[fueddy]

I just set up my Dillion Trimmer last night. Its pretty slick I have to say...but I'am coming from and older Lyman hand powered oe so take that for whats its worth. I think you still have to dechamber though,it does cut clean but it is just cutting from the top and a slight angle it always good as to not cut the jacket on the bullet if I'am correct.

[D.Hayden]

Fueddy.. try the cases both ways.

Try a bunch chamfered and some not, see if there's any difference for you, and if that steps worth it.

Some people swear by it, I for one, found it made no difference at all.

[mildot1]

If you beleive that you don't have to chamfer and deburr, go pull some bullets from your loaded rounds.

If they look like they just like the ones in the box then keep skipping that step!

If not maybe you should re think your plan.

I guess it depends what MOA you are happy with.

I always cut them a little shy, good chamfer and deburr. They usually could take about 4-5 loadings before they needed it again.

If I'm running thru my AR I am going to FL size them everytime sdo theres going to be a little growth depending on how much chamber slop.

I have never had to anneal any brass, I usually lost it before it got to that point or the primer pockets got loose and it got pitched.

FWIW

mildot

[technetium-99m]

I don't chamfer cases for anything that I use 55gr bullets in mass quantities for.

My 55gr ammo is MOA to 300 yards with no chamfering and I'm happy enough with that I'm not going to start chamfering cases.

I do tumble them after trimming for a few hours and I believe the cases nocking around against each other kind of dulls the sharp edges as well as getting rid of case lube and chips.

Edited February 15, 2011 by technetium-99m

[Bryan 45]

the 1200 trims so clean that deburring/chamfering is not needed...

jj

JJ, I hate reloading rifle. If you're going to shoot HM at Blue Ridge, what would you charge me for 250 rounds of your finest .308 handloads?

See you in a couple months!

[Dan Sierpina]

Having worked in machine shops for 40 years, I simply cannot leave a piece of metal that's not a cutting tool with a sharp edge. I use a Gracey with a Bob Jones carbide cutter. I also load flat base bullets from time to time, and with those you do need a chamfer.

[gohuskers]

If you beleive that you don't have to chamfer and deburr, go pull some bullets from your loaded rounds.

If they look like they just like the ones in the box then keep skipping that step!

If not maybe you should re think your plan.

I guess it depends what MOA you are happy with.

I always cut them a little shy, good chamfer and deburr. They usually could take about 4-5 loadings before they needed it again.

If I'm running thru my AR I am going to FL size them everytime sdo theres going to be a little growth depending on how much chamber slop.

I have never had to anneal any brass, I usually lost it before it got to that point or the primer pockets got loose and it got pitched.

FWIW

mildot

But for what purpose? What's the point of chamfering and deburring if you're shooting bulk bullets out of an AR for 3-gun or just plinking? If you're talking about benchrest shooting out of an accurized rifle for long distances, yeah, maybe, I can see that but I'm still unaware of exactly how much difference it has on accuracy. For the most part even shots out to 300 or 400 yards from an AR won't see a substantial benefit from a chamfered and deburred case - at least not enough to require it in my opinion. YMMV.

[Corey]

Im working on developing some loads right now (got a bunch made with as variety of powders, just need a decent day to get to the range to test them). I went through every step imagineable on the brass (sized, trimmed, chamfered, deburred, flashholes deburred, primer pockets uniformed). I wanted the ONLY difference to be the powder charge to see what effects on groups it will have. When Im done and settle on a load, Im going to run some loads with just brass thats been sized and trimmed, nothing else done to it to see exactly how much of a difference it will make. Thats really the only way to find out. Doit for yourelf and see with YOUR rifle if the load shoots good enough for YOU. Someone else's way of doiung things may work for them, but their rifle is different, their loads are different and their tolerances for acceptability are different.

Now for long range shooting, benchrest, f-class, palma, etc etc, each step above(with the excetion of the flash hole deburring) need to be done EVERY time if you want to see good consistant accuracy.

[RiggerJJ]

the 1200 trims so clean that deburring/chamfering is not needed...

jj

JJ, I hate reloading rifle. If you're going to shoot HM at Blue Ridge, what would you charge me for 250 rounds of your finest .308 handloads?

See you in a couple months!

Bryan,

Are you SURE you want me loading ammo for you???

jj

BTW;

Corey,

thats the way to do it, check it for yourself.

I did just that, and got better accuracy with the brass that was NOT chamfered. Putting it into the tumbler after sizing/trimming deburrs it, and removes the sizing lube...

BTW#2;

I had this same discussion with a guy at Dillon a few years back, and he challenged me to try it for myself. His contension was that with 223 and MAYBE 308, the Dillon trimmer was so clean of a trim that tumbling removed the burrs (it does) and it doesn't need chamfering if you do a slight bell before seating and remove it with a slight crimp. I tried it, and he was right...sub-moa groups...why handle the brass so much when you don't have to? more time for practicing!

Edited February 15, 2011 by RiggerJJ

[Ken Kwiat]

I agree with JJ on this point. OK, I'm a hard core Giraud guy so I happen to get the chamfering done as that's what the Giraud does. (Why not the Dillon trimmer for me? -- reasons stated in the other poll/thread on the topic).

What that means in my case I don't have to bell at all and the inside (ID) chamfer results in easy bullet placement. Do I think my pretty ID/OD chamfers make a bit of difference wrt accuracy (in .223)?

No, I don't.

In fact, considering it's through an AR with a Wylde or 5.56 chamber it's kinduv funny. Accurate enough for 3-gun? Sure, sub MOA.

If you want intense varmint or BR level accuracy, you'd probably be chambered in straight .223 with a longer barrel...a whole differnt topic though.

Hannu's the guy to talk to about that stuff. Above my pay grade.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Ken Kwiat

[Graham Smith]

I started shooting .223 last year and got setup with an inexpensive Possum Hollow trimmer and a deburring tool, both of which could be used with a power drill adapter. For small batches, it works pretty well even if it is boring as anything. For swaging, I bought a press mounted device. After about a hundred cases, I said "blow this" and got a Dillon swager - much better.

Fast forward two months and I decide to go to a three day tactical rifle course to see just what I can do with this rifle and now I need 1200 rounds of ammo. Well, after about 200 cases, I said "blow this" and got a Dillon trimmer (thanks Brian for helping me get this so quick). After sizing, trimming, and swaging, I tumbled the brass and checked it and there was no need to deburr or champfer.

Slow forward to this winter. Shooting is over and it's time to prep brass for the new year. I've got about 1500 ,223 cases on hand so I get started. Man, what a giant PITA it is, which gets me to thinking, for all the cost of used brass, tools, cleaning supplies, electricity, and time, is this really worth all the bother? My conclusion is that it probably isn't, unless you are making small volumes of match ammo with really high tolerances. In that case, a hand trimmer and deburr and champfer is justified (and no offense to Dillon, I would not use a Rapid Trim for that).

I'm pretty sure that after this year, I'll likely sell my Dillon trimmer and just buy pre-processed brass. It's just so much easier for not that much more money.

[wirecounter]

I started shooting .223 last year and got setup with an inexpensive Possum Hollow trimmer and a deburring tool, both of which could be used with a power drill adapter. For small batches, it works pretty well even if it is boring as anything. For swaging, I bought a press mounted device. After about a hundred cases, I said "blow this" and got a Dillon swager - much better.

Fast forward two months and I decide to go to a three day tactical rifle course to see just what I can do with this rifle and now I need 1200 rounds of ammo. Well, after about 200 cases, I said "blow this" and got a Dillon trimmer (thanks Brian for helping me get this so quick). After sizing, trimming, and swaging, I tumbled the brass and checked it and there was no need to deburr or champfer.

Slow forward to this winter. Shooting is over and it's time to prep brass for the new year. I've got about 1500 ,223 cases on hand so I get started. Man, what a giant PITA it is, which gets me to thinking, for all the cost of used brass, tools, cleaning supplies, electricity, and time, is this really worth all the bother? My conclusion is that it probably isn't, unless you are making small volumes of match ammo with really high tolerances. In that case, a hand trimmer and deburr and champfer is justified (and no offense to Dillon, I would not use a Rapid Trim for that).

I'm pretty sure that after this year, I'll likely sell my Dillon trimmer and just buy pre-processed brass. It's just so much easier for not that much more money.

Seems as if you are defeating the purpose of saving money if you only use your brass once and buy more brass. And if that is so, than you can buy bulk factory ammo for not much more . . . and it would be easier still (not trying to be a wise guy).

Trimming is simply a required step to ensure consistency and it is easiest with the RT1200B.

Edited October 5, 2011 by wirecounter

[bgary]

I'm pretty sure that after this year, I'll likely sell my Dillon trimmer and just buy pre-processed brass.

Seems as if you are defeating the purpose of saving money if you only use your brass once and buy more brass.

It's a valid point to ponder.

On the one hand, you have

-- the cost of the tool(s) to properly prep brass (dies, trimmer, chamfer-tools, case-gages, comparators, etc, etc, etc...)

-- the cost of your *time* to properly prep brass

vs.

-- the cost of processed brass.

I know that in my case I have well over $1000 invested in case-prep (end to end, including all the tools and such). If my time is worth, say, 20 bucks an hour, and it costs takes me 3 hours to fully prep (decap, decrimp, size, de-lube, trim, chamfer and sort) 1000 pieces of brass, that's $60/thousand in "cost" right there, not even counting the cost of the tools involved.

Compared to $100/thousand for fully-prepped .223 with a "brass-exchange".... the $40/1000 difference means my "tools" will be paid off after 25,000 rounds, but I'll also have invested my time.

So... in a lot of scenarios, buying fully-prepped brass may make a lot of sense.

ymmv

[Graham Smith]

Seems as if you are defeating the purpose of saving money if you only use your brass once and buy more brass.

I'm talking about the difference between buying a large quantity of once fired brass and processing it vs buying pre-processed brass. A lot of the AR stuff I shoot, I don't get the brass back.

[g56]