Define "freestyle"...

[kamikaze1a]

Question about the term "freestyle". Prior to the start of a freestyle cof, I asked the RO if I could shoot kneeling. He said I could not so I shot standing like everyone else.

His answer bothered me because I had recalled reading in the USPSA rules that freestyle meant you could not specify position. Reading article 1.1.5 just now seems to confirm that I should have been allowed to shoot kneeling if I chose.

Should I have been allowed to shoot kneeling? Assuming I stayed within the shooting box...

[spanky]

If the start position is "standing in box...." then you start standing.

You could have knelt after the start signal.

Edited December 31, 2010 by spanky

[Nik Habicht]

Question about the term "freestyle". Prior to the start of a freestyle cof, I asked the RO if I could shoot kneeling. He said I could not so I shot standing like everyone else.

His answer bothered me because I had recalled reading in the USPSA rules that freestyle meant you could not specify position. Reading article 1.1.5 just now seems to confirm that I should have been allowed to shoot kneeling if I chose.

Should I have been allowed to shoot kneeling? Assuming I stayed within the shooting box...

Depends. Technically sure, it's o.k. to kneel or go prone. Realistically though -- that's not something that is checked for at every club match -- if you shot kneeling, would every round fired have impacted a berm, or would it have been possible to launch some in an unsafe direction due to the change in angle?

[G-ManBart]

Yes, you should have been able to shoot kneeling. R,

Edited December 31, 2010 by G-ManBart

[Sarge]

If the start position is "standing in box...." then you start standing.

You could have knelt after the start signal.

8.2.2 says unless otherwise specified you start standing. So it does not have to say "standing in box".

And +1 you could have knealt after the start signal.

[Schutzenmeister]

Yes, you should have been able to shoot kneeling. If something happens where rounds left the range, it would be your mistake in choosing a poor position, and you'd get DQ'd for it....but you did have a choice. R,

Suggest you re-read the second half of 10.4.1 ... This would be a stage design/setup problem and the shooter should not be DQ'd for it. Such a situation would be grounds for modification of the course of fire in order to prevent the problem, per 2.3.

[G-ManBart]

Yes, you should have been able to shoot kneeling. If something happens where rounds left the range, it would be your mistake in choosing a poor position, and you'd get DQ'd for it....but you did have a choice. R,

Suggest you re-read the second half of 10.4.1 ... This would be a stage design/setup problem and the shooter should not be DQ'd for it. Such a situation would be grounds for modification of the course of fire in order to prevent the problem, per 2.3.

You're right, I forgot the legitimate target part. I edited out that part of my previous post. R,

[CHA-LEE]

The only time you shouldn’t be allowed to shoot a certain way is when a shooting style, such as strong hand only, or other action is dictated in the written stage briefing. If I came up to a stage, read the WSB and it didn't explicitly state that I couldn’t kneel after the start of the stage then it is perfectly legal to do just that. Just because an RO says "No you can't do it because everyone else has shot it standing" does not mean that he is enforcing any rule. I would have told the RO to show me in the WSB where it states that I can't shoot kneeling after the start of the stage. Then when he can't produce the rule or mandate I would happily tell him to go look up Rule 1.1.5 and while he is busy looking that up he should hand the clock over to another RO that actually knows the rules.

[Joe4d]

I wouldnt have asked, I would have said,"I am gonna kneel" just like I do anytime I might be doing something different or unexpected. Just to give the RO a heads up. I am just informing not asking permission, all members get or can download a rule book, shooters should spend some time reading it. RO's arnt perfect and make mistakes, Prior to "Standby " and after " range is clear," I have no problem with someone pointing out an error on my part if they can quote the rule or have book handy.

[John Z Sr]

Good point, when you are about to do something that others have not figured out, courtesy call to RO , "I'm doing xxx" then just do it, you know no rule was broken and as long as you are safe, no problem. Goo points about shots leavimg the berm kneeling, but as stated, stage set up should take care of that.

[sperman]

I wouldnt have asked, I would have said,"I am gonna kneel" just like I do anytime I might be doing something different or unexpected. Just to give the RO a heads up. I am just informing not asking permission, all members get or can download a rule book, shooters should spend some time reading it. RO's arnt perfect and make mistakes, Prior to "Standby " and after " range is clear," I have no problem with someone pointing out an error on my part if they can quote the rule or have book handy.

The only time I give the RO a heads up is if something I'm doing might result in RO interference. I don't want to have a discussion about the rulebook right before my run.

[Sarge]

I wouldnt have asked, I would have said,"I am gonna kneel" just like I do anytime I might be doing something different or unexpected. Just to give the RO a heads up. I am just informing not asking permission, all members get or can download a rule book, shooters should spend some time reading it. RO's arnt perfect and make mistakes, Prior to "Standby " and after " range is clear," I have no problem with someone pointing out an error on my part if they can quote the rule or have book handy.

The only time I give the RO a heads up is if something I'm doing might result in RO interference. I don't want to have a discussion about the rulebook right before my run.

+1 If everybody else has zigged before they zagged I'll let him know I'm gonna zag before I zig.

[Gary Johnson]

SM is partially right.

In a freestyle course or string the competitor is free to engage targets as he sees fit but must do so safely. It is the competitor's responsibility to make sure everything he plans to do can be done safely and he is free to consult with range staff on anything he isn't sure of.

Poor stage design does not grant license to do something unsafe.

Yes, you should have been able to shoot kneeling. If something happens where rounds left the range, it would be your mistake in choosing a poor position, and you'd get DQ'd for it....but you did have a choice. R,

Suggest you re-read the second half of 10.4.1 ... This would be a stage design/setup problem and the shooter should not be DQ'd for it. Such a situation would be grounds for modification of the course of fire in order to prevent the problem, per 2.3.

[SteelDown]

I wondered if kneeling was to engage a target visible under a wall. If so then you would be in violation of 2.2.3.3 which states "all walls go from the ground to as high as built". At our club we use walls sections that start 3' above the ground to get height for our taller shooters, it would be possible to engage targets under the wall if you kneeled but this rule prevents this action. Otherwise after the beep its game on.

[kamikaze1a]

Thanks everyone. The evil cof was at a distant target with ns's obscuring the targets. Many, including me hit the ns and I thought dropping to one knee would have allowed me a more steady hold... Several shooters zeroed because of hitting the ns several times.