Profanity On The Range...

[Seth]

Seth, all good points, but those rules aren't enforced when it comes to profanity. If the shooter wants to win a trophy, part of the game is following all the rules, not just the ones they choose.

"But lets assume that they do indeed go off. My first trip would be to the RO and MD to discuss the situation."

With your own statement you're asking Big Brother to step in.

You asked a specific question. That question was what would I do if I asked a shooter to stop being profane and they refused. Well... at that point, I escalate the situation to the MD. I believe that 100% of these issues can be handled with a polite discourse, not more rules.

[ima45dv8]

I believe that 100% of these issues can be handled with a polite discourse, not more rules.

Agreed.

I've been on both sides of that and it works. A gentle word has always been very effective.

This topic comes up regularly, and in most of these threads someone tells of a bad situation where they heard all sorts of objectionable language. Really bad stuff. They also often admit they suffered in silence hoping someone would address it. THAT will get you no where.

If it's me, nudge me and nod toward the gallery. I know what that means. I do that for other people. They know what that means.

Someone much wiser than me once said, "You can't legislate morality". More rules are not the answer. More action is.

[G-ManBart]

This is getting silly...

I try to watch what I say, and am particularly careful around children, and folks that I don't know really, really well, but a rule? That's an absolutely terrible idea.

If you're going to let someone else's words ruin your day, or if you find this sort of thing so terribly offensive that you can't deal with it, you may consider staying home where you can be in charge of what's said and done. Just as you may not want to hear a "bad" word, someone else may not want to have to change the way they talk....it's not a one-way street. God forbid someone let a "damnit" slip out after trashing a stage, or having their gun puke....please, this isn't a bridge club. It's a highly competitive sport (for many people) and people aren't perfect. I'd be willing to bet that if you polled the top-20 from every division at this year's Nationals, few would really care one way or the other if someone on their squad was cussing and acting stupid, i.e. it's that person's issue, and they're just hurting themselves by acting out...let them implode and ruin their performance, it's one less person to worry about.

If someone is acting inappropriately on the range, be an adult, and POLITELY ask/tell them to stop...regardless of whether it's words, gestures, or something else. If that doesn't work, tell the RO/MD/RM, and let them handle it. How many people do you know in our sport that are going to respond negatively to "hey, I know you're upset (or whatever), but it really bothers me to hear the F-bomb every five seconds, can you please try toning it down"?

If someone gets pissy because you confront them about their language, the whole squad should be all over it, and back that person up....problem solved.

[38supPat]

I think peer pressure will do far more than new rules, let the shooters on your squad know you don't find it acceptable when it comes up. To be honest I'm not sure who you guys are shooting with but for the most part I find shooters pretty polite, even my wife who never went to shooting matches in her life said she finds shooters so polite and nice. Much nicer than the people we see at the race track.

[MarkCO]

To be honest I'm not sure who you guys are shooting with but for the most part I find shooters pretty polite

I'd name names, but then I'd get cussed out and threatened...again...

I do like G-Man's post.

[Memphis]

I'll be the first to admit that F*** is my favorite word. That being said, I do my best to keep it under wraps in public since I'm aware of how angry it makes me when I hear someone else say it in front of children.

In a private conversation between friends though, Debra Morgan has nothing on me. Google her if you don't know who I'm talking about.

[clown]

Screaming an obscenity while shooting a course of fire is unacceptable. I understand that. However, dictating what people can and can't say while conversing with their peers on the range is ridiculous. If the entire squad can hear the language then one should lower their voice. If someone walks by and hears a word they object to then that person should keep walking. Just my 2cents.

[badchad]

Why is it OK to use profanities in public when you are an adult, but not as a child? At what age are you allowed to swear in public?

If we are to be examples for our children, shouldn't we walk the walk or.....talk the talk? Don't do that, but its ok for me to????

I think a better question is why do we think it bad if our kids swear? It's just words, and I think I started using the F-bomb around grade 4. In general I find people that are offended by profanity a bit offensive. Penn and Teller on the subject (forwarned there is profanity): http://videosift.com/video/Penn-Teller-Bullshit-Profanity.

[Bigpops]

Why is it OK to use profanities in public when you are an adult, but not as a child? At what age are you allowed to swear in public?

If we are to be examples for our children, shouldn't we walk the walk or.....talk the talk? Don't do that, but its ok for me to????

I think a better question is why do we think it bad if our kids swear? It's just words, and I think I started using the F-bomb around grade 4. In general I find people that are offended by profanity a bit offensive. Penn and Teller on the subject (forwarned there is profanity): http://videosift.com/video/Penn-Teller-Bullshit-Profanity.

Are you serious?

[Charles Bond]

Let me be claar that I do not speak for the BOD and I am not on the BOD after the end of the year. I clearly said what I expect to see.

And this is not about a little cussing. It is about profanity.

IMO the same folks who want to defend their right to talk gutter trash at matches are the same people who want to use cross draw holsters, not have safe areas, and believe that limiting shooting angles to only 180 degrees restricts their second amendment rights.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Charles Bond

[badchad]

And this is not about a little cussing. It is about profanity.

What's the difference?

[Charles Bond]

And this is not about a little cussing. It is about profanity.

What's the difference?

A stern look from a parent vs making your moma cry.

[Jack T]

IMO the same folks who want to defend their right to talk gutter trash at matches are the same people who want to use cross draw holsters, not have safe areas, and believe that limiting shooting angles to only 180 degrees restricts their second amendment rights.

Interesting statement to say the least.

Perhaps it might be best to break up the squads according to a class standard according to education and income then. So who decides what is appropriate language or not? A lawyer, who surely must know the difference between a little cussing and profanity? Or better yet, have a questionnaire for prospective members of USPSA and do a background check and vetting process to make sure they meet specific standard of range etiquette. Surely don't wont no gutter trash talkers on my squad!!!

Edited December 17, 2010 by Jack T

[badchad]

A stern look from a parent vs making your moma cry.

Mommas and parents opinions differ. What words do you consider cursing and what are profane?

[Charles Bond]

IMO the same folks who want to defend their right to talk gutter trash at matches are the same people who want to use cross draw holsters, not have safe areas, and believe that limiting shooting angles to only 180 degrees restricts their second amendment rights.

Interesting statement to say the least.

Perhaps it might be best to break up the squads according to a class standard according to education and income then. So who decides what is appropriate language or not? A lawyer, who surely must know the difference between a little cussing and profanity? Or better yet, have a questionnaire for prospective members of USPSA and do a background check and vetting process to make sure they meet specific standard of range etiquette. Surely don't wont no gutter trash talkers on my squad!!!

Jack it is not tolerated in any other sport and should not be tolerated in this one. And I am fine with a complete prohibition of using any word that you could not use by a first grader in Sunday school. If that makes some of our members form the United States Bad Boys of Shooting League, then birds of a feather..........

[Merlin Orr]

If someone is cursing around the range we should get the squad together and (in our best Samuel L Jackson voice) just tell them to STFU!!!!

[Jack T]

If someone is cursing around the range we should get the squad together and (in our best Samuel L Jackson voice) just tell them to STFU!!!!

But Merlin, those rascals you normally squad with are the ones they are talking about!!

[badchad]

Jack it is not tolerated in any other sport and should not be tolerated in this one.

Profanity is not tolerated in any other sport?

And I am fine with a complete prohibition of using any word that you could not use by a first grader in Sunday school.

So now it seems your against cursing and profanity. So what's the penalty going to be? If a shooter says he has to take a piss (one of George Carlin's 7 dirty words) will that be a procedural or a match DQ?

[G-ManBart]

Jack it is not tolerated in any other sport and should not be tolerated in this one. And I am fine with a complete prohibition of using any word that you could not use by a first grader in Sunday school. If that makes some of our members form the United States Bad Boys of Shooting League, then birds of a feather..........

You must not get to many professional sporting events....

We're more of a hobby/enthusiast sport, so maybe it doesn't apply.

I know tennis has some rules about specific language that is prohibited (in all languages), but that didn't stop John McEnroe from pitching a fit about once a match....and last I knew, they just gave a warning for offensive language. I think screaming at the umpire is actually worse than dropping an F-bomb since it singles an individual out for personal disrespect. R,

[Kyle O]

I cuss, more so when I mess up or get hurt. But, if someone said to me that it offended them, I'd hold back some.

I don't think a rule is necessary.

[BlackSabbath]

The gutter talk makes our sport look bad. It's a real shame some refuse to admit it, and even defend their right to do so. We have rules in the book to deal with this and it's time they are used.

[Nik Habicht]

IMO the same folks who want to defend their right to talk gutter trash at matches are the same people who want to use cross draw holsters, not have safe areas, and believe that limiting shooting angles to only 180 degrees restricts their second amendment rights.

I have no desire to see the sport embrace cross-draw holsters, and I don't think that limiting shooting angles to 180 degrees restricts anyone's second amendment rights. I will defend any competitor's first amendment rights though. That's simply not an area that I care to police via the rulebook.

I do think that it's an area where much can be achieved through leadership -- if there's boorish behavior going on at matches, I'd like that to stop, no matter what form it takes. There's a big difference between forbidding something (If you curse, even once while falling, then this penalty shall apply...) and leading folks toward acceptance of kinder, gentler, more inclusive behavior.....

[twodownzero]

Why is it OK to use profanities in public when you are an adult, but not as a child? At what age are you allowed to swear in public?

If we are to be examples for our children, shouldn't we walk the walk or.....talk the talk? Don't do that, but its ok for me to????

I think a better question is why do we think it bad if our kids swear? It's just words, and I think I started using the F-bomb around grade 4. In general I find people that are offended by profanity a bit offensive. Penn and Teller on the subject (forwarned there is profanity): http://videosift.com/video/Penn-Teller-Bullshit-Profanity.

I agree with this viewpoint.

I don't see why people view it as a problem. Language changes.

"Profanity" is more proficient in our culture than it's ever been. Much raunchier things are on TV than 20 years ago when I was a kid. What is allowed to come out of the speakers on our TVs, even in primetime, would shock my grandparents, I'm sure of it, if they were still alive.

It's rare that I think that people need to "change with the times," but language is among the sorts of human interaction that are constantly changing.

I think we've reached a point where what used to be considered profane, ignorant, or whatever, has become quite common.

Rather than make a big deal out of it, I think we should all just take a chill pill.

Perhaps I should drop a few less f-bombs myself, though, come to think of it.

[Duke Nukem]

All this politically correct, dare not to offend anyone nonsense makes me puke.

How about a rule for not spitting too. Then Camo offends some people so how about a rule that we can only dress like NASCAR drivers. You know while were at it black guns look scarier to the the kids watching so we need a rule to make sure are the guns are pretty non threatening colors.

Remember when Vegas went politically correct, they almost went bankrupt.

[Jack T]

Seriously, if someone is so offensive and out of control with their language that it bothers some of you, then man up and go address the situation as it develops. Sounds like, "I don't have the courage (or balls) to deal with it, so I want a new rule to do it for me".

Admonishment time again???

Edited December 17, 2010 by Jack T