Mark R Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Hey Folks, would like to know what you all think. Some USPSA sections hold section matches and some hold State matches. After looking at the USPSA Areas map, it seems as though there are 8 areas (as we all know) and within those areas are sections which also look like the borders of the states. So in getting ready for a level II match, why are some called section matches and some called state matches since they seem synonymous. Secondly, do other clubs that hold state matches allow shooters from other states/sections to be awarded State Championship titles or just allow them to award overall in divisions? Like to see how other clubs do this...Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Some states have more than one section. Florida has 3: http://www.floridasection.org/ http://centralfloridasection.com/ http://www.southfloridasection.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murkish Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Texas has 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted December 9, 2010 Author Share Posted December 9, 2010 That's understandable. A state with more than one section will possible have section matches. what about states that only have 1 section? should their level II matches be State matches or Section Matches? Or does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Indiana i believe only has one section and we have a "Section Match". i did get a plague as a "state champion" in my division as the highest finisher who was a resident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Secondly, do other clubs that hold state matches allow shooters from other states/sections to be awarded State Championship titles or just allow them to award overall in divisions? If you don't live in that state / section, you will never be the "State Champ". I've won HOA in Limited at a few state / sections outside of my own (FL, IN, MI) but there was always a trophy a little bit bigger than HOA for the guy who was 2nd or 3rd place, just because he lived in the local area. I suppose he is deserving of the title, but I've seen it commonly misconstrued to the point that it appears falsely to others that this person is the division winner. But then again I suppose it's all in which side of the fence you live on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted December 9, 2010 Author Share Posted December 9, 2010 Exactly Chris...HOA division winners and State/Section Winners are two seperate awards. Just wondering how other clubs handle the "State Champ" vs "Overall Div Winners"...and whether they refer to the state/section as State Champs or Section Champs? Should a State/Section winner be awarded if he/she is out-of-state/non-resident of the match host location even if they shoot at the match host location during regular monthly level 1 matches? I've been searching by-laws across the states and found that many sections do it differently...not consistent across USPSA clubs/sections...thus the thread start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Secondly, do other clubs that hold state matches allow shooters from other states/sections to be awarded State Championship titles or just allow them to award overall in divisions? If you don't live in that state / section, you will never be the "State Champ". I've won HOA in Limited at a few state / sections outside of my own (FL, IN, MI) but there was always a trophy a little bit bigger than HOA for the guy who was 2nd or 3rd place, just because he lived in the local area. I suppose he is deserving of the title, but I've seen it commonly misconstrued to the point that it appears falsely to others that this person is the division winner. But then again I suppose it's all in which side of the fence you live on. i was on the other side of that fence Chris and i'll admit...it was pretty weird to see "state champion" under my name when i know i wasnt the division HOA. oh well, ill take what i can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 If you don't live in that state / section, you will never be the "State Champ". I used to think that, too, but see this post regarding the AL Sectional. According to Mark K., it seems like their by-laws are written to allow exactly that under certain circumstances. Mark R., As to why or whether all states/sections do or don't follow the same giudelines, it's not a requirement by USPSA. Each state sets their own by-laws and can adjust them periodically per their own process(es). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Hmmmmm ....... interesting conflict here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark K Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 (edited) yeah, this is a product of a week long discussion between Mark R and me, brought up by the AL sectional. Here is some of my thoughts: (if we limit our State/Sectional Matches to AL residents) what do we do for the shooters that are active USPSA members of our club (in Phenix City, AL), that live across the river in the Columbus, GA and Ft. Benning area? They are paying the membership dues, paying activity fees, working the matches, etc. Do we say “yes, we will take your money, and appreciate your hard work, but you cannot vie for any of our Nationals Slots awarded at the AL sectional/stage match. You have to join a club in GA, that you have little chance of getting a national slot from" ? The next closest USPSA affiliated club, is in Roberta, GA, nearly 90 minutes drive away. Before we had this club, I am a AL resident, but was a member of that club. The dues were low enough that I saved enough in members match fees to pay for the membership. Same deal. Even by GA bylaws, you must be a member of a GA section club, but they run a state match that is limited to GA residents for title and I think Nationals Slots. So, our shooters would not technically be qualified to get slots in the GA championship. I would like our standards to allow the first example, but not allow it in multiple states. Something like you may not compete in the AL Sectional Championship for AL Sectional title, if you are also a member of a USPSA affiliated club in the state of your residence. OR some kind of thing where you must declare what section you are a member of, and then cannot vie for a title in another section. Not arguing, just looking for a Just Solution. Back to 2006 AL Sectional I know of at least one guy that lives in FL, that is a member of an AL club winning the Title. Since that time, the Alabama Matches have been designated as State Matches where residency was the requirement. We are both in agreement that the past championships were fair in that they were declared State matches and that Residency was required. When our club put in for the match this year, we put in for the "Sectional" championship, did not know this little bugabo of State vs Sectional in the past, and declared it a Sectional, then decided to stick with the bylaw definition. Mark R and I are hoping to get some of the club officers, and the AL Section Coordinator and then new Area 6 Director together at the Sectional match to discuss this. The bylaws were last ammended in 2005, as far as we know. Those that know how I shoot are laughing their butts off that I should be talking about Nationals Slots. :roflol: Mark K Edited December 9, 2010 by Mark K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 I fall into just that type of quicksand. I live in NC, but due to where I live I shoot as many SC clubs as I do NC and work more major matches in SC. But when it comes to Divisional Titles and Nationals slots, I only get credit for the NC portion of my shooting. Not that it has been a problem, the NC Coordinator has always worked hard to get me the slot I asked for from his open slots. I would love to see the cross-state-line regular shooters get recognized as contributors not just those that are local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Indiana recognizes HOA in each divison doesn't matter where you are from, we also recognize class winners and the recommended lady, jr, sr, ssr, leo, mil., doesn't matter where you are from. Then we have a plaque for Indiana State Champ in each division that is for highest finisher that is a state resident. By the way the plaque for HOA is the largest, then State Champ and 1st in Class are the same size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted December 9, 2010 Author Share Posted December 9, 2010 To clarify Mark K's post, I think he does not mean that any competitor from another state cannot compete...anyone can compete in the match. The concern is whether or not a non-resident can compete for the Alabama State/Section title, excluding the overall division winners. Dang this is confusing. (and I'm easily confused). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted December 9, 2010 Author Share Posted December 9, 2010 Mark R., As to why or whether all states/sections do or don't follow the same giudelines, it's not a requirement by USPSA. Each state sets their own by-laws and can adjust them periodically per their own process(es). Mark (IMA45DV8) yes I understand that it's not a requirement of USPSA. Just trying to head this off for years to come...seems like it rears it's ugly head every year. Maybe there is a easy fix in the by-laws...Maybe as long as the Match Director states it up front, Maybe.... Not sure what the answer is. Just Q'ing others to see how they interpret the issue. But you can see there are differences in thought so far. Interesting to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Seems like if I am a member of a club, I should also be a member of the section in which that club resides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 We have two sections in my home state. Columbia Cascade and Oregon Section. There are also clubs in Oregon that belong to the Inland Empire (WA) Section and soon a club that will belong to the Idaho Section. We run Section matches because of the variety of sections in the state. The way our section handles slots is through a points system throughout the year. Sign up and shoot x number of matches, do well enough and you get your slot to Nats. Part of the signup though is an agreement to not accept slots from other Sections. For example, if you live in Eugene and compete in the Columbia Cascade Section and Oregon Section, no problem, but you only get one shot for a slot, not one in each Section. Doesn't matter if you live in Oregon, Washington or Idaho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefcs5 Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 (edited) lol I split area and section. I live in iowa wich is area 3 and doesnt even have its own sectional or state match. but I live on the border the closest range in iowa is like 2 hrs away so I shoot in illinois(area 5). 5 mins from my house. I also go to the area 5 every year. no matter how good I get ill never win the sectional or area match. even if they are held at my "home club" at wich I am the Md.lol.. Im screwed either way.lol Edited December 9, 2010 by chefcs5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Seems like if I am a member of a club, I should also be a member of the section in which that club resides. +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Filiaga Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 Secondly, do other clubs that hold state matches allow shooters from other states/sections to be awarded State Championship titles or just allow them to award overall in divisions? If you don't live in that state / section, you will never be the "State Champ". I've won HOA in Limited at a few state / sections outside of my own (FL, IN, MI) but there was always a trophy a little bit bigger than HOA for the guy who was 2nd or 3rd place, just because he lived in the local area. I suppose he is deserving of the title, but I've seen it commonly misconstrued to the point that it appears falsely to others that this person is the division winner. But then again I suppose it's all in which side of the fence you live on. Hey Chris, Ive watched you shoot and would consider 2nd against you as an achievment...... anyway, size don't matter, its how you worked it and who the competition was. When I look at certain trophys they remind me of the hard work required to have the privilage of taking them home, others I can't even remember the match. State/Section Championships are to determine who the biggest fish "IS" in that pond. Your pond may have better water and other big fish with many more oppertunities to tone your skills.......So you don't count except to make the competition better. I always love shooting more when the big fish from other ponds come to play in my pond.......Which is frozen 6-7 months out of the year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 Well, Bill I have watched you shoot at SS Nationals. And 10th to you would be an achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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