Burris PEPR vs LaRue SPD-E mount

[2MoreChains]

Hi everyone. I'm currently using a Burris PEPR scope mount with a Millett DMS 1-4 scope on my AR for 3-gun, and have been looking at options to try and position the scope a little further forward. I currently have the PEPR mounted as far forward on the upper rails and the Millett is as far forward in the rings, and I still get some shadowing when in certain shooting positions. If I move my head back, the shadowing goes away. Seems to me I need to move the scope 1/2 to 3/4" further forward if I can.

Or maybe there is something I can do with my stance?.

I read a bunch of threads on the LaRue SPD-E scope mount (and others) in the hopes that it'll position the scope further forward than the PEPR, but before I took the plunge I wanted to know if I had any other options. FWIW, I prefer to shoot NTCH (or as close as I can get it), and use the typical shoulders squared up to the target and support hand as far forward on the handguard. But my current arrangement does not always allow for that without any shadowing.

I did have a crazy idea about putting a rail on the top of my JP VTac FF handguard and mount the PEPR partly on the FF handguard, but the more I think about it, I don't think that is such a good idea...

Down the road I may look at different scopes, but for my first couple of years of 3-gun the Millett is adequate, but I would be willing to upgrade the mount if that will help. I realize that the Millett is one of the longer 1-4x scopes out there, hence part of my problem... but it's not that much longer than say the Burris XTR 1-4, and has about the same eye relief. I have a local 3-gun match this weekend and will be checking out what the competition is using, but would welcome any advice you guys have.

Thanks

-Evans

Edited October 26, 2010 by 2MoreChains

[suesstech]

I'm curious of everyone's opinion on this too. I've been looking at either the JP or the Larue (SPR_E) mount. Curious to know if the offset does make that much of a difference. If you look around it looks like a lot of people use the Larue's.

[DocMcG]

2More

I have run both mounts with no issues from my experiences. The LaRue is definitely better made with regard to materials and craftsmanship and goes on and off reliably with no tools. I have also run a Millett and would yield to others opinions, but from my experience, and what I read here, the optic is picky with regard to eye relief. I am not sure any mount will fix that issue.

Give it a try, it might work! Especially if no one offers different advice and you will keep it for an optic upgrade later.

Cheers,

Kyle

[Graham Smith]

Or maybe there is something I can do with my stance?.

Are you running the gun like a tactical AR, with the stock in, elbows in, forward lean, nose to the charging handle? In that case, you are going to find that you may not have enough eye relief on the scope. Reason I ask is that this is the same issue I found when I first put a scope on an AR.

What solved the problem for me was a change in stance. I got a copy of the Jerry Miculek

and found that I was much more comfortable shooting.

As always, your mileage may vary. Offer not available in all states. This message will self destruct in 15 seconds

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[Greg Bell]

I run the SPR-E with a Millet and I don't recall ever getting the "shadowing" during match conditions. I will try it tonight when I get home.

[smokshwn]

The Larue is a far higher quality mount.

I believe it was markco who took a pretty objective look at the mounts and found that due to mix of component metals in the PEPR that the mount tended to walk zero around a little more than the Larue or JP.

[Jesse Tischauser]

I run the the SPR-E on everything. I like to have my face up close to the charging handle. The extra forward positioning with that mount gives you some versatility the their standard LT-104.

[abn-rgr]

Tried the PEPR when I shot for Burris. Couldnt take it and went back to the Larue.

[MarkCO]

Tried the PEPR when I shot for Burris. Couldnt take it and went back to the Larue.

Ditto, except I went back to the JP mounts.

You have some choices, obviously the LaRue or JP mounts, which move the mount point forward with an effective cantilever. Of you can get a Firebird handguard with a barrel nut extension that extends the top rail. Besides adding strength, you get a few more inches of rail. I attached an image illustrating the extension.

[2MoreChains]

Thanks for all the feedback.

As far as my stance, dunno whatcha call it, but I'm running my AR with the stock extended out as far as I need to get the proper eye-relief with the Millett, stronghand elbow in, forward lean, nose about an inch or so shy of the charging handle because of the eye relief I need. Thx for the link to JM's video. It looks like he is not completely square to the target, and slightly bladed. Can't argue with anything Jerry does. I'll try that.

Curiously enough, I've yet to have my PEPR go off zero. Still pretty dialed in after a year. But I'll readily acknowledge that there is a difference in quality between the two and I'm not 3-gunning every weekend.

Just for my curiousity, can somebody tell me how much offset is there on the SPR-E? I had a hard time telling. If it's greater than 1.5-2" (more or less what the PEPR has), it might be what I'm looking for. For consistency, may be measure from the leading edge of the mounting surface to the rear of the forward ring. I'll re-measure the offset of the PEPR when I get home to have something to compare it to.

Thanks everyone!

Edited October 26, 2010 by 2MoreChains

[2MoreChains]

Tried the PEPR when I shot for Burris. Couldnt take it and went back to the Larue.

Ditto, except I went back to the JP mounts.

You have some choices, obviously the LaRue or JP mounts, which move the mount point forward with an effective cantilever. Of you can get a Firebird handguard with a barrel nut extension that extends the top rail. Besides adding strength, you get a few more inches of rail. I attached an image illustrating the extension.

The bbl nut extended rail looks like it would work very well for what I'm trying to achieve. Unfortunately I already have a handguard... but I'll keep it in mind. Maybe on my next build!

[abn-rgr]

I shoot nose to charging handle and have plenty of eye relief with the SPR-E.

[spd522]

I have both mounts with Milletts in them. The Larue will allow for more eye relief. It is also lower than the PEPR so keep that in mind as it will affect your cheek/stock fit.

I have yet to have either mount change zero when left attached.

Craig

[SMSI]

I can just shoot nose to charging handle using a Meopta or Accupoint and a Larue SPR-E. Barely, especially with the Accupoint. However, I think it is the best extended mount or scout rail available. I have a couple of old Accuracy Speaks rails that go further out, but they are very heavy for 3 Gun shooting. Beware of attaching a scope or mount to the forend - it will move when you crank down on your sling or brace against something. Sort of defeats the purpose of a free float barrel.

[2MoreChains]

I have both mounts with Milletts in them. The Larue will allow for more eye relief. It is also lower than the PEPR so keep that in mind as it will affect your cheek/stock fit.

I have yet to have either mount change zero when left attached.

Craig

Great feedback! I was hoping somebody had both and could give a comparo on the two mounts. This helps. A lot. Thanks for the heads-up on the height of the SPR-E.

-Evans

[2MoreChains]

Beware of attaching a scope or mount to the forend - it will move when you crank down on your sling or brace against something. Sort of defeats the purpose of a free float barrel.

Copy that! Good things to think about. Thx for the reply.

[patrickbeijer]

Just my opinion

The only scope mount i ever had that did not shift zero after remounting is the JP 30mm mount .

And i have had JP / Burris / Larue LT104 (yes i did shift a litle) / MAK mount (which is a very expensive mount made in germany)

I think the JP is the best in quality vs money for a scope mount and for IPSC and 3gun you do not need a quick lever mount ,only for the coooooooool factor (which offcourse is also very important )

[2MoreChains]

I like cool factor as much as the next guy, but it is the SPR-E's offset that drew me to it. Come to think of it, don't they also off a non QD SPR?

Yup, just checked. Something called a VFZ mount. Any experience with that?

[Greg Bell]

Just for my curiousity, can somebody tell me how much offset is there on the SPR-E? I had a hard time telling. If it's greater than 1.5-2" (more or less what the PEPR has), it might be what I'm looking for. For consistency, may be measure from the leading edge of the mounting surface to the rear of the forward ring. I'll re-measure the offset of the PEPR when I get home to have something to compare it to.

Thanks everyone!

With my crude measuring I would say 2.1 inches

And I just took a few sight pictures and I tend to place my nose about 1/2 inch back of the charging handle with no shadowing. If I move right up and touch my nose to the charging handle it does shadow.

[smokshwn]

I like cool factor as much as the next guy, but it is the SPR-E's offset that drew me to it. Come to think of it, don't they also off a non QD SPR?

Yup, just checked. Something called a VFZ mount. Any experience with that?

The VFZ mount is simply the same basic mount with a different mechanism that requires a wrench to attach and remove. Essentially the same mount points without the throw levers. Rock solid.

[2MoreChains]

Just for my curiousity, can somebody tell me how much offset is there on the SPR-E? I had a hard time telling. If it's greater than 1.5-2" (more or less what the PEPR has), it might be what I'm looking for. For consistency, may be measure from the leading edge of the mounting surface to the rear of the forward ring. I'll re-measure the offset of the PEPR when I get home to have something to compare it to.

Thanks everyone!

With my crude measuring I would say 2.1 inches

And I just took a few sight pictures and I tend to place my nose about 1/2 inch back of the charging handle with no shadowing. If I move right up and touch my nose to the charging handle it does shadow.

Greg,

Thanks. I came up with 1.4" of off-set with the PEPR (leading edge of the mounting surface to rear of the forward ring). So sounds like the SPR-E will do what I need it to do. Appreciate you taking the time to measure yours.

The SPR-E with the VFZ mount is sounding better and better. Thanks everyone. You guys are an awesome source of information!

[Greg Bell]

No problem!

[kellyn]

Just my opinion

The only scope mount i ever had that did not shift zero after remounting is the JP 30mm mount .

And i have had JP / Burris / Larue LT104 (yes i did shift a litle) / MAK mount (which is a very expensive mount made in germany)

I think the JP is the best in quality vs money for a scope mount and for IPSC and 3gun you do not need a quick lever mount ,only for the coooooooool factor (which offcourse is also very important )

+1. My favorite mount as well.

[SMSI]

Note: your nose length may vary! Sunken eyes will also skew the analysis! Likewise, cheek fatness is a factor!

[OPENB]

Before I got a great deal on a SPR-E, I used a Rock River Arms Scout rail with Warne steel rings. This put the scope out as far as the SPR-E, was half the cost. Downside is it was a little heavy, and was not quick detach. I wanted quick detach so I could switch optics when I practiced with my .22 conversion. Scout rail ran around $70, and the rings were like $40. Zero was very solid.

I've been hearing good things about the Primary Arms 1 piece mount. They have a regular and extended SPR-Eish eye relief version, non-quick detach. Price is reasonable.