STI Spartan vs RIA Tactical

[mgood]

I've been reading a lot about the STI Spartan, here and elsewhere, mostly very positive. This is the #1 candidate for my next gun.

I know the Spartan's frame, slide, and barrel are made by Armscor, the rest of the parts, other than the rear sight (Itallian? LPA?) are made by STI and shipped to the Phillipines and all assembled by Armscor and then the pistols are shipped to STI for final QC.

Rock Island, made by Armscor, appears to have the same frame and slide. Not sure about the barrel, but maybe? The RIA Tactical model also has an ambidextrous safety. (Ambi safety is not a huge deal to me, but there it is.) The Spartan comes with the adjustable rear sight. (Also not a deal-breaker for me - at all.)

What differences are there between the two? STI parts vs RIA parts.

I'm wanting this as an inexpensive full-size 1911 for USPSA Singlestack Division. I'm actually thinking 9mm right now.

I'd have some minor modifications done right off the bat on either. Add a magwell. (I'm back and forth between the Dawson Ice and a more traditional looking S&A type magwell. Leaning towards the Ice at the moment.) The trigger will be replaced in either, because I want a short trigger. Trigger job, which may or may not include aftermarket trigger group components. Probably a Dawson fiber optic front sight.

So, if I'm replacing stuff anyway, say I add something like the EGW Ultimate Trigger Kit, replacing the front sight negates the advantage of the FO front sight that comes on the Spartan. What benefit do I gain by getting the Spartan over saving a few bucks and getting the RIA? Yes, I know STI supports our sport. That's great. But I don't think that in itself is worth the extra $150 or so it'll cost me to have STI on the pistol. I doubt I'll see any contingency money, so that's not really a factor either.

[JorDanO]

I don't know what RIA service is like, but if you ever have any trouble with the Spartan I know STI will stand behind it. If you get it from Bobby at Freedom Gunworks you can get him to do all the work for you before shipping it out. Saving on shipping costs to get the gun worked on will make the $150 difference a lot smaller.

[mgood]

Bobby is one of the guys I'm considering. (I've talked to him on the phone about a Spartan.) Another is to get it ready to go from Dawson. Jimmy Mitchell in Breckenridge is supposed to be a pretty good smith. I go there to shoot occasionally and his home and shop are right across the road from the range, so I could pick up/drop off stuff with no shipping there. Anyway I go, I'll probably buy the gun through one of these guys, with the mods I want already done. Jimmy is handy in case I need something tweaked a bit or later decide I want additional mods. Benny Hill, of course, seems to be the number one gunsmith recommended on this forum. He's another obvious option.

Edited October 25, 2010 by mgood

[steel1212]

They may have the same frame and slide, I don't know. What I do know is they aren't backed by the same company. There is no way I would buy a RIA for competition when I could spend a little more and get a gun backed by STI. Plus if you shoot the STI gun you have the chance for contingency money. That isn't to say RIA isn't a decent gun but its not the one I would pick.

On top of that get it from Bobby and you have 2 companys that will stand behind their product 100%

Edited October 25, 2010 by steel1212

[Strick]

Does STI pay contingency on Spartans? Since they are not a STI frame I wasn't sure based on the last time I looked at their forms.

[steel1212]

Does STI pay contingency on Spartans? Since they are not a STI frame I wasn't sure based on the last time I looked at their forms.

It is a STI frame just not made by STI. Just like a Springfield frame is a Springfield just not made at Springfield. Same with a lot of other companies.

[Strick]

I was just curious if that is enough of a distinction to not be eligible for contingency.

[mgood]

STI contingency money is not really an issue. I've yet to win a local match. I've got about as much chance of winning something major as I do of winning the lottery. I win D Class when I'm the only D Class shooter there.

This 9mm is just an intermediate step. I'm planning on spending more on a nicer .45 1911 a couple years down the road. At that time, the 9mm will be a practice (like instead of a .22 conversion), plinking, and occasional local match gun.

Edited October 26, 2010 by mgood

[ck1]

The Spartan's have the same S-7 steel sear and hammer that come in their upper echelon guns (means you could skip the EGW parts and just pay labor only), that alone is probably worth the extra $150 (not to mention putting a price on having a Texan who's probably seen some mighty fine 1911's looking it over before it ships out), plus IIRC the bushing they get is a higher quality fitted version too.

(FWIW, I happen to think RIA's are great guns, and actually prefer the fixed rear to the LPA that comes on the STI)

Edited October 26, 2010 by ck1

[mgood]

STI being in Texas is a plus, from my perspective.

Fixed sights are one less thing to break.

[ck1]

STI being in Texas is a plus, from my perspective.

Fixed sights are one less thing to break.

Harrison makes a fixed sight you can go to in the future if the adjustable starts to get on your nerves (I'm with you, once set-up it's usually me who needs the adjusting, not the sight): http://shop.harrisoncustom.com/category/53-sights.aspx

[steel1212]

I was just curious if that is enough of a distinction to not be eligible for contingency.

Its still a STI gun. It still says STI on the side. That is all they care about, that somebody won their class with a STI gun.

[mgood]

Harrison makes a fixed sight you can go to in the future if the adjustable starts to get on your nerves (I'm with you, once set-up it's usually me who needs the adjusting, not the sight): http://shop.harrisoncustom.com/category/53-sights.aspx

Oh, I probably wouldn't take it off if it was already on there. I just wouldn't pay much, if any, extra to have it.

Drift for windage, buy the right height and/or file for elevation and you're good to go. . . . Until you change your load, but that probably won't affect elevation more than an inch or so and windage not enough to tell it at the distances we usually shoot. That's where I think an adjustable would be handy, being easier to change if you change your ammo.

[ima45dv8]

STI being in Texas is a plus, from my perspective.

Fixed sights are one less thing to break.

Harrison makes a fixed sight you can go to in the future if the adjustable starts to get on your nerves (I'm with you, once set-up it's usually me who needs the adjusting, not the sight): http://shop.harrison.../53-sights.aspx

John's business sure has grown. Nice website, too.

[drift mode off]

[818-DVC]

TheRe has to be a reason why 90% of 19/2011 shooters in IPSC/USPSA use an adjustable rear sight. Duty/tactical guns, Idpa and concealment guns tend to have a fixed rear for a reason.

[warpspeed]

My Spartan I got from Bobby was 10x better fit than the RIA stuff or at least the one I got was compared to the ones I've seen at the local gun shops.

If you look at the two, the first thing that stands out is the cocking serations; the STI has front & rear. The next big thing is the adjustable sights.

I think it is a very nice gun for the price point.

[mgood]

My Spartan I got from Bobby was 10x better fit than the RIA stuff or at least the one I got was compared to the ones I've seen at the local gun shops.

That's one of the things I was wondering. Two sets of frames and slides made in the same factory, but possibly more attention to detail on one series than another?

BTW, I was pretty much sold on the Spartan long before I started this thread. Just kicking around other ideas before I commit.

Edited October 26, 2010 by mgood

[CeeZer]

Spartan all the way. It's on cheaper side, 70 Series, very high quality gun to start with, easy to work on and mod to your liking.

FO front and adjustable rear sights are very solid and pretty good too. All in all - excellent gun.

I got one and love it.

Edited October 26, 2010 by CeeZer

[Larry White]

In your position I would probaly go with the Spartan from Jimmy Mitchel, he is a very good smith and being local to you is a plus. He is not as well known as some but everthing I have seen of his is top notch. Good folks, good local company with some great products(wrong side mag release and very good cast bullets).------------Larry

[Airedale]

I have several RIA's with thousands of rounds through them with zero problems. I have an RIA .38 Super that has a 9mm barrel fitted in it. It has nearly 10k rounds through it with no problems.

The customer service through the Armscor guys is what the industry standard should be. Check out the RIA threads on the 1911 forum. The RIA tactical is as SS ready as any other pistol manufactured for the masses.

Having said that, I also have STI pistols with no issues. I have an STI Escort on my hip as I type this.

Dave

[EkuJustice]

Is you backup gun still the wilson there Dave

[mgood]

In your position I would probaly go with the Spartan from Jimmy Mitchel, he is a very good smith and being local to you is a plus. He is not as well known as some but everthing I have seen of his is top notch. Good folks, good local company with some great products(wrong side mag release and very good cast bullets).

Thanks for the good word on Jimmy. He's not exactly "local," being about 250 miles away. What I save on shipping, I'd spend on gas. But there aren't many "local" matches to shoot around here. Since I have family in Breckenridge, I've gone a couple times this year, spent the night, and shot the match there. I like Jimmy. And being able to show him problems I'm having rather than trying to explain it over the phone, or being able to pick something up from him and go across the road and test it out . . . those seem like big advantages. I've been impressed with what I've seen of his work. (I have not used him as a gunsmith, yet. But I've seen his guns that some of the local guys there shoot, and more of his stuff when I visited his shop.) And yeah, I might have to get one of his backwards mag releases.

On the other hand, HE doesn't like the Spartan. Something about the barrel he doesn't like. (I figure that as accurate as everyone says they are, what else do I care about the barrel?)

Edited October 26, 2010 by mgood

[Airedale]

Is you backup gun still the wilson there Dave

I have a dandy CQB that I use as a backup when I shoot the RIA in single stack!

Dave

[twodownzero]

I'm bringing this back up to the top and I wonder if anyone else has any more opinions.

I'm looking for a 9mm 1911 for my lady friend, who is somewhat new to shooting. The difference in price between a Spartan from Dawson and a RIA Tactical has grown to $200, which represents nearly 1/3 of the purchase price of the Spartan.

The RIA has a fixed rear sight; STI has adjustable. The RIA has ambies from the factory; the STI does not. It seems to me that the trigger components and the slide serrations give the STI the edge (no pun intended), but I'm not sure if that negates the price difference.

What do you guys think? I'm surprised to see how nice the RIA is looking for the money, especially since it's available with a beavertail and ambies out of the gate. It certainly looks 100x nicer than the Taurus (especially at the corners of the frontstrap).

What do you guys think? $200 is a lot of money for a new shooter so keep that in mind. $200 is also enough money to buy six Tripp magazines.

Edited November 29, 2010 by twodownzero

[818-DVC]

Can't have a Spartan so I bought the tactical. It's one of my favorite 1911's I own. Comes with ambi's & novaks. Fit is tight. Some lapping the slide & frame Rails made it nice. Trigger job was a cinch with factory parts. I like the commander hammer better too. I paid $440 NIB. It left me the extra $40 for a front FO sight and a few mag puches n holster. If I had the right, I would buy a Spartan too and work it over.