IDPA Classifier 2 to the body 1 to the head

[GForceLizard]

When shooting the IDPA classifier stage 1 strings 1, 2 & 3 can you shoot all head shots? "Draw and fire two (2) shots to the body and one (1) to the head". What I see is a new shooter pulling a body shot up to the head. 2 hits on the head and one -0 on the body. Is that still down -0? If it is then would it be valid to shoot 3 to the head and still be down -0? On the IDPA classifer.

On page 45 of the 2005 IDPA rule book it says; "Shots that are specified for the body, but where the shooter actually shoots the head are to be counted as -0."

[lugnut]

Down zero, one procedural.

[Classic_jon]

Down zero, one procedural.

Agreed, no points down but a procedural for not following directions in the stage description.

[Steve Koski]

I'd give a new shooter (or someone who gets lucky with one shot) down 0, no procedural.

If a shooter intentionally put all 3 into the head, I'd discuss the shooting instructions with them, and have them re-shoot the stage. Don't want mental malfunctions in the classifier.

Koski

[Pat Miles]

I'd give a new shooter (or someone who gets lucky with one shot) down 0, no procedural.

If a shooter intentionally put all 3 into the head, I'd discuss the shooting instructions with them, and have them re-shoot the stage. Don't want mental malfunctions in the classifier.

Koski

Why give a new shooter a break from the stage description? Teach a noob to do it right from the very beginning and don't irk the other shooters. Take him aside and tell him that there is a reason for a WSB.

Pat

[GmanCdp]

qoute:What I see is a new shooter pulling a body shot up to the head. 2 hits on the head and one -0

since it limited vickers count stage and states 2 to the body,then one to the head,the one to the head[would]be counted as miss..

same thing as after on string 4 the head shots,if a shooter pulls one down to the body you stop after that string and tape over the body shot and score it as a miss...

[Strick]

Personally I give them 5 down.

[astephenson]

5 down for every shot not in the prescribed scoring zone.

[Steve Koski]

Pat,

Page 45:

In certain course designs, the course description may specify that a

certain number of shots may be required on specific areas of the

target, i.e. two (2) shots to the body and one (1) shot to the head.

Shots that are specified for the body, but where the shooter actually

shoots the head are to be counted as -0.

Page 67:

Draw and fire two (2) shots to the body and

one (1) to the head on T1.

So according to these two pages, it would be perfectly legal to fire all 3 rounds at the heads, correct? If not, please justify based on the 2005 rule book or clarifications from IDPA HQ.

Thanks,

Koski

[Graham Smith]

On page 45 of the 2005 IDPA rule book it says; "Shots that are specified for the body, but where the shooter actually shoots the head are to be counted as -0."

I don't shoot IDPA but just to throw gasoline on this fire... This rule does not distinguish between accidental and intentional. That's a pretty big distinction. As written it would appear to allow body shots to be intentionally taken to the head.

My take on this is that it's OK to take the harder of the shots if you want but not the other way around. IOW, if it says body and you shoot head, that's OK because the intent is two easy and one hard shot and you are taking three hard shots instead. But you can't interpret that to mean that you can take three body shots.

[Jane]

If not, please justify based on the 2005 rule book or clarifications from IDPA HQ.

Thanks,

Koski

not one of them thar things... just a few logical concerns....

One thing that is part of the equation in those strings is a transition - moving point of aim from an 8-inch circle to a 6-inch square.

Allowing people to deliberately avoid having to aim twice doesn't sound like what the CoF describes. I think many upper level shooters would be faster with 3 head shots than shooting two down zeros and then making the transition.

It would also allow for pre-emptive shot-stacking - i.e., put extra shots on the head at the start so if there's any taping after string 4 you have at least 3 on the head and don't lose any down.

[Chills1994]

maybe a more explicit WSB would help. maybe the classifier script should say "two shots center mass" or " two shots to the torsoe" then one shot to the head.

I am ASSuming nobody does anything silly like shoot the head first one time and then transitions to put two in the chest.

[Steve Koski]

Jane,

I hear you (and am inclined to agree), but that's not what it says in the rule book. It would be good to get it clarified.

Koski

[Merlin Orr]

A written course description is with the IDPA classifier.

Read them or weep....

[Sac Law Man]

The answer is NO..

First, the rule you are referring to on page 45 is for Vickers count.. The clasifier is limited Vickers.

Second, page 45 also states

Shooting all shots to the head to circumvent sight

alignment transition may be considered a procedural and incur the

penalty.

Definately a procedural penalty for each sting fired this way.

[Steve J]

If you only aim at the head you're not engaging with two to the body and one to the head, so I would award a procedural for each string.

Actually though, since it's the classifier and a reshoot of a stage is allowed for mental error, I would stop the shooter, tape the targets and start him over with specific instructions on how he is expected to shoot the first three strings.

[Steve Koski]

SLM & Steve. I agree. Good catch on that additional text on page 45.

[Duane Thomas]

Yes, amazing how many times "clarification" isn't needed if you actually read the Rule Book.

[GForceLizard]

Personally I give them 5 down.

And this is what I agree with. Because it's the classifier you don't get zero down for the head hits when it specifies body (on 2 body and 1 head strings). It has to be 2 body hits and 1 head hit. Head shots beyond 1 are misses -5 each.

[Duane Thomas]

I have to ask, has anyone ever actually seen anyone try to do three head shots apiece on Strings 1 thru 3, or is this just a theoretical discussion along the lines of "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

[Ahab]

I can't figure out why you'd want to shoot three head shots on those strings anyway. It's definitely faster to draw to an open hammer to the center of the target than it is to draw to a head shot; and you can't shoot fast enough splits on a triple tap to the head to make it worth it. My times on the stage where you have to double tap the heads of each target are always slower on the first shot since I'm drawing to a smaller target than the open body.

[Steve Koski]

I was just wondering if it was allowed per the rule book (it's not). I haven't seen anyone try it. I have seen body shots accidentally strike the head though.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Steve Koski

[Duane Thomas]

I think that 417 angels can dance on the head of a pin.

[Strick]

I think that 417 angels can dance on the head of a pin.

The chubby little cherub type? No way it is that many.

[GForceLizard]

I have seen body shots accidentally strike the head though.

Yup, and the problem I had was they scored the extra head shot down zero.