Limited shooters. Are you adding a dot?

[Bryan 45]

I saw a few guys at the last match I shot who opted to add the dot.....but not where you might think...they stuck with irons for their ranged engagements, but added a little JP dot to the side of the rifle for hoser stages...

That is exactly what I would be doing, but with a Aimpoint Micro.

Guys, I don't want to burst your bubbles, but as of now it looks like USPSA matches are the only ones allowing this combination in Tac Irons (or whatever it's called now).

[TruePunisher]

I saw a few guys at the last match I shot who opted to add the dot.....but not where you might think...they stuck with irons for their ranged engagements, but added a little JP dot to the side of the rifle for hoser stages...

That is exactly what I would be doing, but with a Aimpoint Micro.

Guys, I don't want to burst your bubbles, but as of now it looks like USPSA matches are the only ones allowing this combination in Tac Irons (or whatever it's called now).

I understand that, but it is a good point to bring up for the people that don't know.

[GorillaTactical]

I saw a few guys at the last match I shot who opted to add the dot.....but not where you might think...they stuck with irons for their ranged engagements, but added a little JP dot to the side of the rifle for hoser stages...

That is exactly what I would be doing, but with a Aimpoint Micro.

Guys, I don't want to burst your bubbles, but as of now it looks like USPSA matches are the only ones allowing this combination in Tac Irons (or whatever it's called now).

Your right. At most of the outlaw matches I've shot recently, they still put any competitor with ANY sort of optic in to Tac Optics

[DyNo!]

I dug this thread up because I'm debating whether I want to mount an offset red dot.

I've really never thought - "Man, I'd go so much faster if I tilted my rifle with a dot" on a hoser stage.

With both eyes open and a good cheek weld, I fail to see how a dot is faster than irons at distances under 10 yards. Put the big black blob on the center of the target and whack the trigger twice. If it requires a better sight picture than this, you shouldn't consider hosing. Can someone disagree with this?

Edited December 26, 2010 by DyNo!

[RAZZ]

I dug this thread up because I'm debating whether I want to mount an offset red dot.

I've really never thought - "Man, I'd go so much faster if I tilted my rifle with a dot" on a hoser stage.

With both eyes open and a good cheek weld, I fail to see how a dot is faster than irons at distances under 10 yards. Put the big black blob on the center of the target and whack the trigger twice. If it requires a better sight picture than this, you shouldn't consider hosing. Can someone disagree with this?

Sure, I can disagree with you. But only because you asked me to I agree with you that with the 10 yard target, it probably makes no difference. But, for me, it's that 50 yard hard cover target where I appreciate the dot.

I think everyone is probably a little different, has different likes, strengths etc., but out to 100 yards or so, I can't see how a dot WOULDN'T be faster--or at least as fast. You only need to line up two things, instead of three, you can keep both eyes open for better periphial vision of other targets, and they seem to be a little more forgiving when the sun light begins to fade. Maybe I'm just really sucky with iron sights, but out to about 100, I am consistently faster (and just as accurate) with an RDS than with iron sights, and my eyes feel less 'tired' after shooting distant targets, as I'm not closing my weak eye. Now, past 100 or so, I seem to be more accurate with iron sights, but closer in, I like the RDS. It also seems, to me, that with iron sights, depending on the size and distance of the target, a good bit of the target gets covered up by the sights themselves, and kind of obscures it.

I suspect in the end, it may not make a significant difference overall. Whoever was dominating Limited with irons could probably dominate Limited with an RDS if he wanted to.

Edited December 27, 2010 by RAZZ

[DyNo!]

You only need to line up two things, instead of three, you can keep both eyes open for better periphial vision of other targets, and they seem to be a little more forgiving when the sun light begins to fade.

Well, I haven't had a problem keeping both eyes open and when it comes to lining up rifle sights, with a good cheek weld, you should only need to line your sights up once. The same goes for shooting a dot or a scope.

my eyes feel less 'tired' after shooting distant targets, as I'm not closing my weak eye.

I've had a similar sensation however, most long range stages are less than 2 minutes. It has never bothered me enough to get a blinder.

Now, past 100 or so, I seem to be more accurate with iron sights, but closer in, I like the RDS. It also seems, to me, that with iron sights, depending on the size and distance of the target, a good bit of the target gets covered up by the sights themselves, and kind of obscures it.

For me, if it is a wide open target, a black blob in COM is sufficient for an alpha hit - but then again, I shoot ghost ring sights on a shotgun and I see nothing but people saying that you should not do that.

[RAZZ]

You're a better man than I am if you can shoot distant target with both eyes open using iron sights.

[OPENB]

What are you 20, Cam? Wait until you're 40+, things don't look like they used too!

[donnyglock]

As my eyes have started going down hill I really love the dot now more than ever. I find the more I focus the worse they get.

I also agree on a hose fest it is not any faster but past 15 yards it starts to gain speed.

[DyNo!]

What are you 20, Cam? Wait until you're 40+, things don't look like they used too!

True, I can understand that.

[kurtm]

I am almost 53, I detest dots and don't like scopes. I think dots are only good for battery making companies, and slower across the board than a good set of iron sights. Now if someone will hand me my walker I will try to demonstrate that very thing.

[John Z Sr]

CLEAR TIP OF THE FRONT SIGHT POST, as Chesty and The Good Lord intended

[StealthyBlagga]

I switched to a RDS (Aimpoint ML3 with 2MOA dot) and I'm liking it a lot. After setting up our last local match, I had no problem dropping a pair of LaRues at 500 yards - good enough for me . After a couple of years away from Tac Iron, it's good to be back.

[OPENB]

Will there be a name change from tac irons to ...? What should we call it now? How about just "tactical" for irons and RDS, and tac optics for scopes.

[kurtm]

We have been calling it Tactical Non-Magnified for the two years we have been doing it. KurtM

[P.E. Kelley]

I am almost 53, I detest dots and don't like scopes. I think dots are only good for battery making companies, and slower across the board than a good set of iron sights. Now if someone will hand me my walker I will try to demonstrate that very thing.

I will help you if you help me!

What is it about us old guys and Iron sights?

(I say that contemplating a move to optics because of the low turn out in our divisions)

Happy New Year my Good Friend!

Patrick

[Big Bore]

I am almost 53, I detest dots and don't like scopes. I think dots are only good for battery making companies, and slower across the board than a good set of iron sights. Now if someone will hand me my walker I will try to demonstrate that very thing.

I will help you if you help me!

What is it about us old guys and Iron sights?

(I say that contemplating a move to optics because of the low turn out in our divisions)

Happy New Year my Good Friend!

Patrick

I don't consider myself old, others may disagree.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Big Bore

[ken hebert]

I don't consider myself old, others may disagree.

its the smell that throws them.

[Big Bore]

I don't consider myself old, others may disagree.

its the smell that throws them.

What do they say to you????

[el pres]

After a couple of years away from Tac Iron, it's good to be back.

Good to be back in Tac Iron ?? Then where is your "Iron" ? With that disgraceful tube on top of your gun, your shooting "Tac Dot" or "Tactical Light".

[kurtm]

Ah Senor Pres got in before the new year for the Division name and quote of 2010!!! Tactical Light it is for a Dot shooter!

Happy New year Pat, Trapr, Big Bore, El Pres, Ryan Nowels, Mike Pinto, and Jason Schmidt...the IRON GUYS!!

[el pres]

Ah Senor Pres got in before the new year for the Division name and quote of 2010!!! Tactical Light it is for a Dot shooter!

Happy New year Pat, Trapr, Big Bore, El Pres, Ryan Nowels, Mike Pinto, and Jason Schmidt...the IRON GUYS!!

Well thank you Kurt, and I am honored to be considered a part of such a distinquished few !!

[Vespid_Wasp]

I saw a few guys at the last match I shot who opted to add the dot.....but not where you might think...they stuck with irons for their ranged engagements, but added a little JP dot to the side of the rifle for hoser stages...

Does anyone know if this is going to fall into the realm of tac-irons at major outlaw matches?

Edited March 15, 2011 by Vespid_Wasp

[RSB]

I've done only a little USPSA shooting, but I've got a lot of lead down range at classes and such with the AR15. What I've seen is that up close shooters with irons are significantly slower but shoot tighter groups. I'm not sure how it works at range, the trend evened out by 200m so that strong shooters with either system dominated weak shooters no matter what.

[Graham Smith]

There are parallax issues with red dots at closer ranges (not sure how much) but that's pretty much true with every sight. You just have to learn what your hold over/under is for your load for your sight for your zero.

As to the idea of running both a RDS and Iron sights, I didn't think you could do that. If you can, then maybe putting a red dot on top zeroed at 100yds and a JP on the handguard at a 45° is worth looking into.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Graham Smith