Uspsa Vs. Idpa

[Shooter Grrl]

And then there's the way cool totally awesome SOLE SOURCE TV DEAL for a show that looks like it isn't going to happen

DAMN THEM!

Michael, "they" don't really WANT TO GROW, cause if they did, they woulda by now!

[Duane Thomas]

Duane,

from online IDPA rulebook

Under Competition Rules:

17. TACTICAL LOAD: ... To be in the “spirit” of the stage, the shooter must retain the magazine in one of the following ways PRIOR to the firing of the first shot after a tactical load: pants pocket, vest pocket, jacket pocket, waistband or magazine pouch. Using specially designed pockets, shirt pockets or holding the magazine in the hand or teeth is NOT permitted.

Fascinating how my soon to be purchased "Designed by IDPA Shooters for IDPA Shooters" vest pocket is going to be more in the "spirit" than the front pocket of my off-the-rack Timberland flannel.

Live and learn. That's....well, silly.

[Sam]

Micheal B, I wanna USPSA badge!

I'd shoot SASS too, but I'd have to buy 3 more guns and my horse doesn't like people who dress like truck drivers.

[RKooi]

Michael,

Who are the 'we' that you refer? IDPA? IPSC? USPSA? I think it's great that SASS just issued badge 58,000 and that Steel Challenge and sporting clays and precision rifle and every other shooting sport is doing as wonderful as you say because that is good for my definition of 'we'; shooting sports enthusiasts, people who like to play with guns. You could assemble the best marketing team in the world and show me cowboy action all day long on OLN or Outdoor whatever and even buy me the 3 guns and an awesome outfit and I still wouldn't want to spend my free weekends shooting that particular game. Just not interested. I think it's great that 58,000 people do and I support them 100% in their choice of gun game. I guess the point I am trying to make is that I am sick and tired of 'us' and 'them' when it really should just be one big 'us'. My choice happens to be IPSC, the USPSA version of that brand. I don't knock any of the other games or people who play them and I welcome them to come out and play my game anytime they have the inclination. I guess I just don't see USPSA as stagnant in my neck of the woods like some of the other posters.

Just my.02, rant mode off.

[JWK]

I look at IDPA like an EX WIFE, the bitch was, is and never will be happy;

that doesn't mean I won't tickle her every now and then

[Bucky]

In my mind, there is no controversy because I shoot both and I like both. They are both games, one uses a little green book and the other a little red book.

I like them both two. Only soon it will be a green book and a purple book (pick a color). In another three years it will be a green book and a brown book, then three more years a green book and a ..... green book (that'll be confusing). Maybe we'll even get the quick fix toilet paper book again in one of the interims..

[Helmut]

I think everyone should look at the driving factor of the world...........check to see which one is a PROFIT organization and which one is a NON-profit organization.......I think you will see the light......

just my own thoughts....

[MBaneACP]

The "we" I refer to are the scenario-based practical pistol sports, primarily USPSA and IDPA, but you can also throw in the splinter groups like Polite Society and a handful of others.

I don't suggest that you might want to shoot any of the other sports. What I do suggest is that scenario-based practical pistol, in terms of growth, is pretty much dead in the water at the very time when other shooting sports, including the handgun-centric Steel Challenge, are drastically increasing their participation.

Driven by magazine partnerships, IDPA grew like a weed in its first years, but that seems to have tapered off in a lot of areas. Growth is still in positive numbers, however. My understanding is that USPSA continues at a trickle loss—slightly more people leaving than joining.

There are several reasons this issue is important:

• Funding, which is directly tied to membership, defines what member services will be available. An example is USPSA returning to a single Nationals format because it can no longer afford multiple Nationals.

• Funding also defines/limits what membership recruitment programs can be launched. For example, there's widespread agreement that a program sending top shooters/trainers/recruiters to gunstores/ranges around the country would result in a tremendous increase in visibility and subsequently membership for practical shooting. There's simply not enough money in the sport to launch such a program—or virtually any programs, for that matter.

• Size is important...to both the industry and to the politicians. Only a small part of the firearms industry supports practical shooting, although they have benefited tremendously over the years from what we've done. I've also been asked dozens of time why priactical shooting's voice is never heard in Washington; well, when Dave Thomas and I presented our position on hi-caps a year or so ago, the lobbying organizations looked at us like we'd beamed in from Mars. And once they understood the size of our "constituency," they went back to their cigars.

• There is also the undefinable issue of "buzz." Loosely put, buzz says whether you're hot or not hot. Rightly or wrongly, a lot of things happens purely because of buzz...people like to align themselves with a winner. The reverse is also true. Buzz isn't necessarily a function of size [or wealth or media exposure], but those three things can be used to generate buzz. The main thing generating buzz is *passion.* I'll let you call that one.

Okay okay, enough gloom and doom! Yes, the scenario-based practical shooting sports will survive. Heck, even PPC's still around!

Michael B

[gmshtr]

The closest thing anyone can get to trully "practical" shooting, is simunitions. Try that a few times, and you change your whole perspective of what's realistic.

Pistol competition, whether USPSA, IDPA, PPC, etc provides one thing to real world shooting. It helps the shooter become more comfortable with the gun in their hand. The less you think about shooting, the more you can think about everything else!

Just a thought.

Phil

[Chuck D]

" The less you think about marksmanship, the more you can think about everything else".

?

[IPSCDRL]

I think what Phil meant is that once the gun handling skills are ingrained to the point where they require less consious effort, you can focus on the other elements of your current situation shoud you need to employ a hangun for its primary intended use. (Anyone remeber THAT phrase?)

[MBaneACP]

I TOTALLY agree with Phil!

And Phil, I know that must profoundly frighten you. Seriously, let me make a pitch here for a book from a friend of mine, Ralph Mroz--DEFENSIVE SHOOTING FOR REAL-LIFE ENCOUNTERS. Ralph has the gift of *seeing clearly.* He defines 3 stages of gun skills development...a grounding in the basics, range skills from simple to complex and force-on-force scenarios. He suggests that we are *stuck* in the second phase. There a fundamental limitation of "practicality" in that range stage because, as Jim Cirillo says, the targets don't shoot back.

The more I run force-on-force, the sillier the whole "who's more practical" argument seems.

The huge advantage of competing in *any* of the shooting sports is as Phil says...you *know* the gun, you *know* what a good shot is and you've taken shots under *pressure,* however artificial that timer pressure might be.

Michael B

[AikiDale]

Now there is a shooting sport with audience appeal. "Fox Sports presents 'Force on Force' The Reality Show with only one Survivor. Have You Got What It Takes?"

Each week the contestants compete for big bucks blasting each other from famous locations. Shootout at the OK Corral, Escape from New York, Can the FBI survive another Miami Shootout? How would you handle the North Hollywood Massacre?

Can I get a job as a script writer for this?

[rhino]

There was a movie a couple of years ago with just about that premise. People got picked to be on a reality game show where they had to kill each other to advance (i.e. live). The most bada** player of all was a pregnant woman who had won before.

Mindset and the willingness to do whatever it takes to survive are key elements!

[gmshtr]

Crap! Did I type marksmanship??? I meant "shooting." Sorry for the mix-up.

Lack of sleep. BTW, I really enjoyed your work on at the Shot Show and SS TV Mike. I didn't really get around much, so I wasn't able to see many people. Maybe I'll see you on the range!

Phil

[MBaneACP]

We should have Force-On-Force Games/Show up by 2nd quarter 2005 (and it'll be "The Outdoor Channel presents"...not Fox Sports!). My production team and I have been "green-lighted" (Look mom, he sounds just like those idiots on HBO's Project Green Light!), but there are HORRIFIC logistics problems to be overcome. We've got a second shooting show to get up before F-O-F (look for announcements, hopefully in a couple weeks), plus the logistics of taking SHOOTING GALLERY to HDTV to sort out.

As I probably mentioned as the proud papa, SHOOTING GALLERY is the highest-rated new show in the history of The Outdoor Channel. It's a rocket. We picked up major sponsorship at SHOT.

I owe that to YOU GUYS (and GRRLS). THANKS ALWAYS!

For a taste of what we're thinking about on F-O-F, check out my end-of-season two-parter, ZERO TO HERO IN 72 HOURS, which will run the last two weeks of March. We promo'ed it at SHOT to overwhelmingly positive response (scared the crap out of me!), and The Outdoor Channel is launching a national publicity campaign to support it...I expect to be in the middle of a screaming s&%storm in a week or so. Situation normal.

Competition-wise for SG this year, we're looking at:

--Steel Challenge

--End of Trail

--MGM Ironman

--one of the sniper competitions and/or the SWAT Round-Up

--S&W Women's Championships

I'd like to do Rocky Mountain 3-Gun, but it's in direct conflict with the Steel Challenge. I think we've got that fixed for 2005. I'm also considering the National Tactical Invitationals and/or the IDPA Nationals.

We'll also have yet another episode (or two) of ZERO TO HERO. Think "tandem skydive..."

Again, my heartfelt thanks...

Michael B