G34 CORDY Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 I just bought a CZ Shadow Custom for production but my question is do I start with the hammer down or can I have it cocked and locked but with the safety on before the buzzer goes off? I have been shooting a Glock 34 so this wasnt a concern before. Do I have to manually put the hammer down since I dont have a decocker or can I start with the hammer back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 (edited) I just bought a CZ Shadow Custom for production but my question is do I start with the hammer down or can I have it cocked and locked but with the safety on before the buzzer goes off? I have been shooting a Glock 34 so this wasnt a concern before. Do I have to manually put the hammer down since I dont have a decocker or can I start with the hammer back? You have to manually lower the hammer and start with the hammer down before the buzzer goes off. If you want to manually cock it after the buzzer, you're allowed to. R, Edited August 28, 2010 by G-ManBart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Hammer must be down to start. Gun with decocker -- use that, whatever position it leaves the hammer in is fine. Gun without -- manually lower the hammer all the way down.... Look at 10.5.9 and Appendix D4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 (edited) Gonna have to start with the hammer down. Your going to have to pull the trigger and lower it by hand. One slip and your going home for the day. Edited August 28, 2010 by EkuJustice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G34 CORDY Posted August 28, 2010 Author Share Posted August 28, 2010 Thanks guys for your help, I will be using my CZ at my matches from now on so I didnt want to look like a newbie at my next match lol. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W_Buck Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 I got my CZ about 2 months ago, I'm also switching off a G34. Lowering the hammer is really no big deal, you get used to it really quick. Just remember to go slow and use both hands, grasp the hammer between your thumb and forefinger with your weak hand and slowly lower it while pulling the trigger. Also, I always tell the RO that I am going to manually lower the hammer, and have to pull the trigger to do so. I just feel better telling them, even if they already know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G34 CORDY Posted August 29, 2010 Author Share Posted August 29, 2010 Do I have to lower the hammer all the way down or can I lower it to the semi cocked position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 Do I have to lower the hammer all the way down or can I lower it to the semi cocked position? The first special condition of appendix D4 has the truth you seek... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 Do I have to lower the hammer all the way down or can I lower it to the semi cocked position? Did you read what I said here? :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G34 CORDY Posted August 29, 2010 Author Share Posted August 29, 2010 I did read it but I was just curious because my buddys Phantom has a decocker and it dont let the hammer all the way down its half cocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 I did read it but I was just curious because my buddys Phantom has a decocker and it dont let the hammer all the way down its half cocked. Read it again -- I covered that too..... :devil: Decocker -- must use that, hammer good wherever it leaves the hammer. No Decocker -- must use the trigger to carefully and fully decock -- no stopping on the half cock notch. Apples and oranges.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climbhard Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Resurrecting this thread. So if a person has a production legal gun that is selective action and they holster with hammer back and safety on after make ready are they in open shooting minor or can they self correct (or RO suggest that they lower then hammer) to be in compliance with their declared division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) Per 8.2.1 & 8.3.1, the RO should not start them until they put the gun in the correct ready position. It's important that the RO realizes they are registered in Production, as Limited or Lim-10 could start as you describe. If they holster hammer back and safety not applied, that's a DQ. Edited August 29, 2017 by JAFO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climbhard Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 So it's partially on the RO to get them in the correct start position including handgun condition but if they don't and the shooter doesn't self correct before the buzzer it's a bump to open, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Common sense would say yes, but I admit I'm having a hard time finding a rule to support that at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I think this would cover it: 6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, other-wise the competitor will shoot the match for no score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 On 8/30/2017 at 9:37 AM, Climbhard said: So it's partially on the RO to get them in the correct start position including handgun condition but if they don't and the shooter doesn't self correct before the buzzer it's a bump to open, correct? This is actually a good question. The rules specifically say we are not to say anything if the shooter forgets to chamber a round, but if he is starting in an illegal for his division start position, should we correct it or ruin his day with a bump to open? The shooter is always responsible for his gear so I would imagine the answer is not to say anything, especially since there is no range command you could use to have him correct it, but it would also be a simple fix to prevent the guy from having a bad time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 3 hours ago, waktasz said: This is actually a good question. The rules specifically say we are not to say anything if the shooter forgets to chamber a round, but if he is starting in an illegal for his division start position, should we correct it or ruin his day with a bump to open? The shooter is always responsible for his gear so I would imagine the answer is not to say anything, especially since there is no range command you could use to have him correct it, but it would also be a simple fix to prevent the guy from having a bad time. i tend to agree with you. don't say anything (if you actually notice). we don't check to see that they only have 10 rounds in each mag, we wait until they prove it, and then bump them to open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 You think the RO should start someone NOT in the correct Ready position? 8.2.1 The handgun is prepared as specified in the written stage briefing, and is in compliance with the requirements of the relevant Division. 8.3.1 "Make Ready" – This command signifies the start of "the Course of Fire". Under the direct supervision of the Range Officer the competitor must face down range, or in a safe direction as specified by the Range Officer, fit eye and hearing protection, and prepare the handgun in accor-dance with the written stage briefing. The competitor must then assume the specified start position. The Range Officer will not proceed with any further range commands until the competitor is still and is in the correct start position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climbhard Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) My take on this is IF the RO notices he is compelled to mention the error. If he doesn't notice it, well then I guess the question is moot. Noticing and saying nothing is an error by the RO but the consequence would seem to be a bump to open. Edited September 7, 2017 by Climbhard Spellcheck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 29 minutes ago, JAFO said: You think the RO should start someone NOT in the correct Ready position? 8.2.1 The handgun is prepared as specified in the written stage briefing, and is in compliance with the requirements of the relevant Division. 8.3.1 "Make Ready" – This command signifies the start of "the Course of Fire". Under the direct supervision of the Range Officer the competitor must face down range, or in a safe direction as specified by the Range Officer, fit eye and hearing protection, and prepare the handgun in accor-dance with the written stage briefing. The competitor must then assume the specified start position. The Range Officer will not proceed with any further range commands until the competitor is still and is in the correct start position. Start position .................... The location, shooting position and stance prescribed by a COF prior to issuance of the “Start signal”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 39 minutes ago, JAFO said: You think the RO should start someone NOT in the correct Ready position? 8.2.1 The handgun is prepared as specified in the written stage briefing, and is in compliance with the requirements of the relevant Division. 8.3.1 "Make Ready" – This command signifies the start of "the Course of Fire". Under the direct supervision of the Range Officer the competitor must face down range, or in a safe direction as specified by the Range Officer, fit eye and hearing protection, and prepare the handgun in accor-dance with the written stage briefing. The competitor must then assume the specified start position. The Range Officer will not proceed with any further range commands until the competitor is still and is in the correct start position. as waktasz has already pointed out, there are 2 different things going on here. handgun in compliance, and person in correct start position. If you start someone in an incorrect position, it's just a reshoot. no harm no foul. If you start someone with non-compliant handgun, it's a bump to open. What if you notice 1 guys non-compliance, but fail to notice someone else's non-compliance? now you've helped one competitor and created a problem with competitive equity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 OK, I see the distinction. I would still be very inclined to help a new shooter, especially in their first match, to make sure they are compliant with whichever Division they registered under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 17 hours ago, Climbhard said: My take on this is IF the RO notices he is compelled to mention the error. If he doesn't notice it, well then I guess the question is moot. Noticing and saying nothing is an error by the RO but the consequence would seem to be a bump to open. Wrong, the RO is not allowed to coach a shooter. 8.6.1 No assistance of any kind can be given to a competitor during a course of fire, except that any Range Officer assigned to a stage may issue safety warnings to a competitor at any time. Such warnings will not be grounds for the competitor to be awarded a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 22 hours ago, JAFO said: OK, I see the distinction. I would still be very inclined to help a new shooter, especially in their first match, to make sure they are compliant with whichever Division they registered under. absolutely. new shooters at local matches are a whole different thing, not that bumping to open would really make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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