Detecting a squibb

[Dacsoft]

I hear so much about the dangers of a squib load that it almost makes me wonder if it is worth it. I did a search on squib and it leads me to a couple questions for those that have experienced a squib - either themselves or actually saw it happen.

I know all ammunitions can experience a squib, but these questions are really related to 9mm. I reload 9mm for IDPA.

I know they say you can hear the difference between a squib and a normal load. Is it obvious enough when participating in competition like IDPA?

Does a squib normally have the power to rack the slide or is that another indication of a problem?

How common is it for the squib to actually prevent the second round for fully seating - which would prevent the second round from firing?

[Supermoto]

It is usually obvious when you have a squib. I have yet to see a squib that allowed the next round to chamber, but I have heard stories that guns have cycled and rounds have chambered, so the best bet is when you feel anything out of the ordinary, you stop and confirm that the barrel is clear.

[G-ManBart]

Yeah, it's usually pretty obvious...sort of a loud pffffft with smoke. It's unusual, but not impossible for it to cycle the slide. The problem is when people have a squib, don't recognize it (because they're trying to go fast), rack the slide, chamber a new one and bam...things get ugly. R,

[calishootr]

squibs come in different varieties, the classic, is the one where there is not enuff powder to both getthe bullet out ofthe barrel and it doesnt cycle the slide, the good part ofthat is if you manage to cycle in a new round, the bullet that is lodged is usually preventing the new one from fully seating, but i have seen em seat further in and ifthe RO isnt on top ofthings, like G-Man said, things get uuuuuugly in a hurry, i had one a while back where it sounded 'different' and it did hit a popper i was aiming at, but didnt cycle the slide, i did see one that wrecked an opengun when two bullets met in the middle

[sigsauerfan]

when a round is fired over a squib, is it automaticaly ruining the gun and are we automaticaly going to be hurt, or it's a small % where the worst happen??...i mean, is the next round fired can ''push''' the squib out with 0 drama??

i never had a squib but i'm very aware it can happen to anyone, still , i'm alert about it.

[G-ManBart]

when a round is fired over a squib, is it automaticaly ruining the gun and are we automaticaly going to be hurt, or it's a small % where the worst happen??...i mean, is the next round fired can ''push''' the squib out with 0 drama??

i never had a squib but i'm very aware it can happen to anyone, still , i'm alert about it.

A lot depends on the cartridge, and where the stuck bullet is. If it's something like an Open gun, and the stuck bullet is close to the chamber, parts are going to fly. If it's a mild .45 load, and the bullet is closer to the bore, maybe you could fire another and simply push out the stuck bullet, but that would be total luck. It's possible to have a squib and fire another behind it and do nothing other than bulge the barrel, but that's about a best case scenario we see routinely. Luckily, even when parts fly, people rarely get hurt, and even more unusual would be a serious injury. R,

[sigsauerfan]

when a round is fired over a squib, is it automaticaly ruining the gun and are we automaticaly going to be hurt, or it's a small % where the worst happen??...i mean, is the next round fired can ''push''' the squib out with 0 drama??

i never had a squib but i'm very aware it can happen to anyone, still , i'm alert about it.

A lot depends on the cartridge, and where the stuck bullet is. If it's something like an Open gun, and the stuck bullet is close to the chamber, parts are going to fly. If it's a mild .45 load, and the bullet is closer to the bore, maybe you could fire another and simply push out the stuck bullet, but that would be total luck. It's possible to have a squib and fire another behind it and do nothing other than bulge the barrel, but that's about a best case scenario we see routinely. Luckily, even when parts fly, people rarely get hurt, and even more unusual would be a serious injury. R,

woaw. hope this will never happen to me during a match.

if the squib occure at the second tap of a double, then fine, i would probably notice.

but a squib occuring at the first of a double...hmmmm,that's probably where it goes unoticed.

there's probably where someone can get fooled at the match when busy with fast pace action .

[bbbean]

I know they say you can hear the difference between a squib and a normal load. Is it obvious enough when participating in competition like IDPA?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I've been present for two squibs that sounded perfectly normal to me. It was the second round that sounded funny (and did the damage). I've also heard squibs that were obviously "off". The latter are preferable (and a lot cheaper to fix!)

Does a squib normally have the power to rack the slide or is that another indication of a problem?

How common is it for the squib to actually prevent the second round for fully seating - which would prevent the second round from firing?

Both of these vary. The most common squib I've seen will cycle the slide, but leave the round sticking just far enough into the chamber to stop the second round from chambering. This would be the ideal squib. The expensive squib makes it far enough down the barrel to let the next round chamber and fire. At that point, it's off to the 'smith or the nearest vice and hacksaw.

Crux of the matter is that you have to pay attention when you;re reloading, and you have to pay attention when you're shooting. If anything seems off, stop and check.

[Supermoto]

I found a video of when I had a light load cause by cleaning media stuck in the bottom of the case. It sounds the same as all the other shots, the bullet leaves the barrel,, but the gun did not cycle and felt different.

The RO didn't notice the difference neither did anyone else when they asked my why I stopped. If you want to know what one feels like, load a round without powder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_di2JKrSeQ

Edited August 24, 2010 by Supermoto

[sfchorn]

One other thing to consider....

Some cheap electronic muffs that amplify conversation may amplify and disguise the sound of the squib enough to make it sound close to normal.

I have been around a couple of squibs when wearing cheap electronic muffs, and didn't hear the difference. Went to moulded earplugs, and first practice wearing them I heard a low-powder load from a fellow shooter. Sounded completely different.

Could be me and my ears (after 20 years active duty with the US Army, I have hearing loss), the electronic muffs, or the combo of the two.

[cyburg]

We had a person that had three rnds in the barrel. Luckly nothing bad happened. They said the gun felt weird when they shot and did not see any hits on the target. It was fun getting them out.

I guess the first was a squib don't know about the other two.

[blue]

I have had 3 squibs (2 factory 1 reload). They all made a pfffft noise and were noticeable. I had a friend shooting my gun and he didn't notice a squib and almost shot again. Glad I was paying attention.

[kevin c]

When I started out I wanted to know what a squib might sound when I'm double plugged, so I deliberately made some squib rounds: primer over bullet only.

I took special care to mark the rounds clearly and kept them separate from all other ammo. I started with just one round, hand racked in from the otherwise empty gun. Oh, and I had a squib rod and hammer handy, and I did all this at a range where I could work on the gun from the firing position.

For me, with a Limited gun, there was only a soft pop. That might be louder with a ported Open gun, and the same or softer with a Production gun, but I haven't tested that. The bullets (40 cal is what I was checking) all lodged just up from the leade, and, in my case, when I put other rounds in the magazine, would not feed the next round. The cases also did not eject (11 to 13# recoil springs).

I could see where, in the heat of the moment, a shooter might miss the sound of the squib, assume a complete failure of the round, and try to rack in another round to fire.

You might consider trying something similar. Just take care to keep those squib rounds marked (mine were bright red and black striped ;-D) and segregated from your other ammo, and be ready to deal with a squib up the pipe when you do the testing.

Edited August 24, 2010 by kevin c

[MemphisMechanic]

I've twice stopped a shooter who chambered a round behind a squib. (same guy, actually. Remind me never to use his reloads).

I load on a 650, and have never managed a squib or double-charge that went undetected. In normal operation, it's nearly impossible if you so much as glance at each case.

The only time you're at risk with a fully progressive machine is during a jam, or while clearing it. Any time the press acts up, pay VERY sharp attention to the next four rounds you load. Confirm powder charge precisely when you check each one.

[Biloxi23]

I actually saw a suib with a factory loaded 230 grain ball fire in a SIG 220. I was running q qualification and was standing behind him. The projectile went far enough into the barrel to let him chamber the next round when he racked the slide ( he noticed something was different, but went straight into his malfunction clearance). I was shouting to "cease fire'" but he fired the next round anyway. The slide came to the rear, ejected the fired round and tehn started forward. the bulge in the barrel stopped teh slide from returning into battery. Fortunatlely the only thing dmaged was the barrel. Somewhere in one of my junkboxes I still have that barrel.

[Dacsoft]

You might consider trying something similar. Just take care to keep those squib rounds marked (mine were bright red and black striped ;-D) and segregated from your other ammo, and be ready to deal with a squib up the pipe when you do the testing.

I may do that. While I do try to pay close attention when reloading, I am still concerned I could miss one in competition -- There isn't a lot of time between shots. But if it doesn't cycle the slide, it at least gives you time to think about what went wrong. I guess the worse scenario would be if it actually cycled the slide and another round was chambered.

[boz1911]

You will notice a squib or light charge when it happens. I was shooting some ammo reloaded by someone else(just for the brass) and every once in a while there was a light charge(never a squib) and my finger immediately jumped off the trigger. I was surprised at how fast I stopped and checked the barrel.

Squibs are the reason I always visually verify powder level prior to setting a bullet when reloading.

[wsimpso1]

Cycling the slide generally takes a lot more energy from the ammo than just getting the gun to go bang, so usually, a soft round will cause a malf, even when the bullet leaves the bore.

Now I will mention the exception. A Limited Gun Master I know was shooting a Mech Tech carbine (pure blow back gun with a pretty light recoil spring) on a hoser stage and stuck a bullet in the bore, presumably from a squib, and the gun cycled a new round into the chamber. He never even stopped pressing the trigger. The guys watching were trying to stop him, as smoke and flashes were coming form the wrong part of the gun. To the shooter, it did not look very wrong, but to the observers it was obvious. It took a couple seconds (his splits are impressive). He ended up with several MG 180 gr bullets stuck in the bore and the barrel was split axially. So, some guns might allow followups with a stuck bullet.

Billski

[Jeff686]

Maybe some people's audible and visual acuity is not as fast, or they are just not as situationally aware, but every time I've seen/heard a squib it was obvious. The sound is unmistakable. The sight of the empty cartridge coming out when you rack the slide is obvious.

As to worries that the slide may cycle and load another round, because of a 'light load' squib, BS for my gun. I played around with some light loads and light springs. For my gun, I found that a light load will fail to obturate (temporairly seal the brass to the chamber with pressure) and fail to cycle the slide long before it fails to get the bullet out of the barrel. Failing to obturate is a smokey (from the wrong place) and funny sounding thing. Failing to cycle the slide is obvious, since you rack the slide manually and out comes an empty case.

Of course, I also wonder how often (if ever), people are hurt when they send a bullet down an obstructed barrel. In my limited experience, I've only seen one person injured by a gun coming apart, and it was obviouslly not a squib problem. I am also under the impression that modern barrels are designed to peal like a banana under excessive pressure, not shatter like a hand grenade.

Maybe I'm just going through life stupid and ignorant, but I don't really stress over squibs. I'm careful when I reload. I pay attention when I shoot. I STOP for anything that doesn't sound or look right. I wear safety glasses.

Frankly, I worry much more about other safety issues. I think there is a much higher chance that I shoot myself in the hand (opening a window/door prop), or break the 180, or have an AD while clearing a jam. Having a gun explode and hurt me because a good round is sent down after a squib seems like a corner case to me.

[larry cazes]

Best way to safeguard against a squib is to NOT load one in the first place. Be as careful as YOU feel you need to be to not load a squib and then you never have to worry. I look into every case before I seat a bullet, period. Slows me down a bit when I reload but I sleep better at night knowing I am not going to have my wife injured due to a round I loaded for her.

[jrguar]

when a round is fired over a squib, is it automaticaly ruining the gun and are we automaticaly going to be hurt, or it's a small % where the worst happen??...i mean, is the next round fired can ''push''' the squib out with 0 drama??

i never had a squib but i'm very aware it can happen to anyone, still , i'm alert about it.

A buddy of mine had a squib, racked and was able to chamber another round... then balloned the barrel where the fist bullet stoppedboth bullets came out of the gun but that was the last shot fired until he replaced the barrel....