Multi String Range Commands

[CHA-LEE]

This may be a stupid question but what is the proper range command sequence on a multi string stage after the first string? Do you start off all subsequent strings with "Make Ready" or "Are you ready"? The Make Ready command does not make much sense because the shooters have already refreshed their gun's load condition after shooting the first string before reholstering. We also are not issuing the "If you are finished....", "If finished unload...." commands after each string so technically they really don't have to Make Ready again since the line is considered hot the whole time they are on the line for all strings of fire. I was ROing my squad through a multi string classifier and since I didn't know what the proper range command sequence was I would ask them to give me a nod when they were ready for the subsequent string and then I would issue the "Are you ready?", "Standby", then Beep. Then another shooter said that I should be stating "Make Ready" instead of the give me a nod when you are ready command. After being given that comment I started giving the shooters the "Make Ready" command between strings. I don't care who is right or wrong with what happened this weekend, I just want to understand what the correct range commands are for this situation. Thanks in advance for the help.

[Gary Johnson]

You are permitted to ad-lib with things like 'reload as needed' or 'make ready for the next string' but I stay with 'Make Ready' because it conveys the message without risking confusion on the part of non-english speaking competitors.

[George Jones]

The rules do not specify the exact command, but this is what I recommend (and I say the same to all shooters regardless of the Division they are shooting):

"Reload if necessary and holster" - this assumes, of course, that the handgun ready condition is holstered.

If the handgun ready condition was otherwise, I would amend the command.

Once the shooter is in the correct start position, I continue with the "Are You Ready?" command, and so on. It is not necessary to give the "Make Ready" command between strings unless the situation makes it helpful (such as was mentioned in the previous post).

BTW, there is no such command as "give me a nod". Many shooters find it quite annoying to hear it and begin to wonder as to the RO's rules knowledge.

[Sarge]

I like make ready because it makes it clear that if I choose to do so I can legally handle the gun. It erases all doubt in my mind. Also, some strings are from different shooting boxes so I like to start the range commands over again once I have walked somewhere. Thats just me though, not sure what the actual answer is.

[CHA-LEE]

The multi string stage in question had the shooters moving from one shooting position to another. If its all happening in the same shooting position it makes sense to me to simply start off all subsequent strings with "Are you ready" once the shooter has assumed the correct starting position. But when you are moving from one position to another that adds an extra dynamic of the shooter getting back into the proper starting position. This is why I was calling for the nod when they felt like they were ready again. I know that calling for a nod is not a legal range command and thus why I am asking for guidance here. Giving the Make Ready command on subsequent strings after the shooter has moved to a different shooting position is probably the best thing to do after thinking about it.

Edited August 2, 2010 by CHA-LEE

[ima45dv8]

If it's a flat-footed, no change in position Standards stage, I say, "If you are finished, reload if necessary and holster a hot, safe weapon".

If there's some travel involved, like moving from one box to the other, I remain flexible and play to the shooter's desire. Some shooters prefer to unload before taking the walk and in that case I'll be happy to give the UASC clear command at the first position and MR at the second.

[Nik Habicht]

But when you are moving from one position to another that adds an extra dynamic of the shooter getting back into the proper starting position. This is why I was calling for the nod when they felt like they were ready again. I know that calling for a nod is not a legal range command and thus why I am asking for guidance here. Giving the Make Ready command on subsequent strings after the shooter has moved to a different shooting position is probably the best thing to do after thinking about it.

"Are you ready" works here to. You take the walk, and let the competitor set up for the next string. If he's not in the right position after a few moments have elapsed, you might need to remind him of the correct start position. Once the shooter assumes that position, pick it up from "Are you Ready...."

[rgkeller]

IMO, the procedure should be standardized in the rules.

[George Jones]

IMO, the procedure should be standardized in the rules.

Too many variables (as mentioned above).

[mactiger]

Well,it pretty much is:

8.3.6.1 When conducting Standard exercises,Range Officials may issue other interim commands on completion of the first string, in order to prepare the competitor for the second and subsequent strings. (e.g. "Reload if required and holster). This option may also be applied when two or more courses of fire share a common shooting bay or area.

(You can also use this if you have two short courses on the same bay, and are alternating shooters between them.)

Once "Make Ready" has been given, the competitor is free to handle their gun at any time during the course of fire. That should not be a concern, although many competitors do ask before checking their gun.

While it doesn't specify using "Reload if required and holster", since that's the example given, I'd recommend using that one all the time. It eliminates a lot of confusion caused by using either "Make Ready" or "Are You Ready", especially if the shooter hasn't had a chance to reload if he needs to.

Of course, you begin the second and subsequent strings with "Are you ready".

Troy

Edited August 3, 2010 by mactiger

[George Jones]

holster a hot, safe weapon".

[ima45dv8]

holster a hot, safe weapon".

[BritinUSA]

I usually say 'Reload if necessary', as they are doing that I try to quickly state the next string, ie, '2 on each target, reload then 2 on each target weak-hand only' just as a reminder/courtesy to the shooter.

[coldchar]

Isn't "eload if necessary" a bit of a no no. I seem to recall reading somewhere, that we are not supposed to advise the shooter to load. I just tell the shooter to make ready for the next string.

Jim G.

[CocoBolo]

I don't like the reload if you need to, that's up to the shooter to figure out. I will use "Prepare for your next String". Said preparation of course includes getting your gun into the required start which may be holstered, or it could be on the table etc.. If additional instruction are necessary then I will make those as needed. Holster your gun, wrist above shoulders, toes touching front of box etc.

[Skydiver]

Between strings, I been using "If you are finished, prepare for your next string". Once they are done reloading, re-holstering/or putting the gun back on the table, checking/rearranging mags, we move on to the next shooting position if we need to. After they've settled in the start position, back to the "Are you ready?" command.

If I start off with the first shooter by reminding them the objectives for each string, I try to be consistent with all the shooters I run by giving them all the same reminder. If missed it with the first shooter, for consistency's sake I also don't remind succeeding shooters.

[George Jones]

Isn't "eload if necessary" a bit of a no no. I seem to recall reading somewhere, that we are not supposed to advise the shooter to load. I just tell the shooter to make ready for the next string.

Jim G.

How can it be a no-no? It's in the rulebook.

What is a no-no is to coach a shooter, as in "you forgot to rack the slide" or "you're mag isn't seated", etc.

[ima45dv8]

Isn't "eload if necessary" a bit of a no no. I seem to recall reading somewhere, that we are not supposed to advise the shooter to load. I just tell the shooter to make ready for the next string.

Jim G.

I wondered the same thing myself.

First, we do advise the shooter to load, when saying "Make Ready". I'm not telling them to Load. I do advise the shooter that they have the opportunity to Reload, under my careful scrutiny and (if necessary) guidance, if they wish. It's simply an option to reload in lieu of the four steps otherwise required (UASC, ICHDH, RIC, and MR) to reach the same point in the stage. They are accountable for whichever option they select.

It also keeps the match moving.

[coldchar]

George And I was so sure. 8.3.6.1 makes it legal. 8.6.1 Says no assistance during a course of fire. So how do you, oh wise one, explain that one? In my mind the course of fire began with the first Make Ready Command.

[mactiger]

Because it's issued on completion of a string, not in the middle of shooting the course of fire, or during the initial "make ready" sequence. That would be coaching. It's used in place of "make ready", which is basically telling the competitor to load, prep, do whatever. You don't like "reload if necessary/required"? Do what some of the other people here have suggested and use "prepare for the next string" or something similar.

The point is, you must use some sort of interim command to facilitate allowing the competitor to prepare for the next string in a course where the gun remains loaded. 8.3.6.1 gives the RO permission to do that, and specifically allows you to say "reload as...".

Troy

[mactiger]

You are permitted to ad-lib with things like 'reload as needed' or 'make ready for the next string' but I stay with 'Make Ready' because it conveys the message without risking confusion on the part of non-english speaking competitors.

It's not ad-libbing. It's following the range commands. Non-english speakers are required to be familiar with them, in English.

Troy

[coldchar]

Because it's issued on completion of a string, not in the middle of shooting the course of fire, or during the initial "make ready" sequence. That would be coaching. It's used in place of "make ready", which is basically telling the competitor to load, prep, do whatever. You don't like "reload if necessary/required"? Do what some of the other people here have suggested and use "prepare for the next string" or something similar.

The point is, you must use some sort of interim command to facilitate allowing the competitor to prepare for the next string in a course where the gun remains loaded. 8.3.6.1 gives the RO permission to do that, and specifically allows you to say "reload as...".

Troy

I completely agree on the need to make an interim command. Just "reload if necessary," although specifically legal, seems to not just cross the line but run all the way to the finish.

[George Jones]

George And I was so sure. 8.3.6.1 makes it legal. 8.6.1 Says no assistance during a course of fire. So how do you, oh wise one, explain that one? In my mind the course of fire began with the first Make Ready Command.

I don't know who the wise one is , but.....

As Troy said, it's between strings and, most importantly, it is a published range command, so it cannot possibly be considered coaching.

Is "If Clear..." coaching? Of course not.

And it's not just in your mind, Jim.... the COF does begin with "MR". That's in the book too.

[Cy Soto]

I was in the same match as CHA-LEE this past Sunday (different squad) and I RO'd a good portion of the shooters in my squad. I assume that the COF that CHA-LEE is referring too is the classifier named: Lightning & Thunder(CM 09-09).

Because this was (IMO) a complicated classifier, I was doing as BritinUSA mentioned in his earlier post; I would remind the shooter what the required procedure was for every particular string right as they were getting ready to shoot it and I was also giving them the "Make Ready" command prior to each string (in case they wanted to take a sight picture, needed to verify that their holster wasn't locked, etc). I should add that I only had one shooter who asked me not to give him any instructions other than the "Make Ready" command.

I think that what complicates things a bit with this particular classifier is that the shooter is having to move from one shooting position to the next which, at least in my case, makes it feel like you are shooting three separate and distinct COF's (not just different strings).

Edited to add: http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/09-09.pdf

Edited August 3, 2010 by Cy Soto

[SA Friday]

I've pretty much used "If finished, load for your next string". Once in position for the next string and the shooter is settled into the starting position, I restart with "are you ready" etc etc. I never really thought much about it, as the above has worked very well over the years. I suppose exchanging 'load' for 'make ready' would be a more correct version now that 'LAMR' is just 'MR', but even now it still seems to to be clear to even to newer shooters.

On occasion, I have said to a shooter, 'check it if you need to' once in position for the next string, but that is usually because I've seen they left the lock on from one position to another. If they choose to not check it, well, I didn't coach them and they didn't hear me.