Practicing indexing.

[Neomet]

Anyone else do this? I was practicing indexing and just thought I would try it in the dark. (Yes this is with the Open gun) Did draws, step and index, off a table. This was really an interesting drill.

All you see is the dot. You either indexed properly or not. No visual references to que off of at all. I think I am going to incorporate this into my dryfire routine.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Neomet

[benos]

Anyone else do this? I was practicing indexing and just thought I would try it in the dark. (Yes this is with the Open gun) Did draws, step and index, off a table. This was really an interesting drill.

All you see is the dot. You either indexed properly or not. No visual references to que off of at all. I think I am going to incorporate this into my dryfire routine.

Good stuff. Also practice mag changes in the dark.

be

[BoyGlock]

Anyone else do this? I was practicing indexing and just thought I would try it in the dark. (Yes this is with the Open gun) Did draws, step and index, off a table. This was really an interesting drill.

All you see is the dot. You either indexed properly or not. No visual references to que off of at all. I think I am going to incorporate this into my dryfire routine.

I've been doing this w/ a std iron sighted gun w/ eyes closed as BE advised in his book. I do it in almost every dry fire session I do and thats almost daily routine for a few years now. At present I could draw w/ eyes closed, make 1-2 steps in any direction, present the gun, open my eyes and see my sights perfectly aligned. I also do it as in transitioning to 1-2 targets in any direction. I believe this has helped me lot, but I need a lot more practice to be better.

Edited October 29, 2010 by BoyGlock

[Kyle O]

Duane Thomas had an interesting article on this subject in the Blue Press.

[Jake Di Vita]

I've tried practicing in the dark, but today I don't really see the point behind it.

You get the same confirmation of index whether the room is lighted or not. Plus for me, practice is more about pushing the envelope both on speed and the amount of sensory input I can process. I've often turned everything on around me in an effort to create distractions from where I direct my attention. I used to go to the range and have a buddy throw small stones at me or slap my shoulder/head while running through a practice stage.

[38supPat]

That probably didn't take much convincing. Can we take turns slapping you around while shooting?..lol

[38supPat]

Jake, the trick is to remove some of the inputs to focus the others. Taking some of the vision out of the draw or reload makes you more attuned to the feel of the operation.

[Duane Thomas]

Duane Thomas had an interesting article on this subject in the Blue Press.

Thanks, Kyle.

[Sac Law Man]

I feel it is very benificial to do some drils with your eyes closed. If you stand 3-5 yards from the target and shoot several rounds rapid fire you can most likely put all the rounds inside a very small group. One of the things helping you is your vision, however your vision my be compensating for other deficiencies, such as balance or natural point of aim. Now you take the same shooter and have him fire the same rounds but with their eyes closed, they may have a hard time keeping their rounds together and may even string them vertically. Why? Because there is no refrence point, and the guns recoil is strining the rounds. Now, have them take a good stance, with good weight distribution and repeat the drill, they will see a difference. I did this after reading Duane's article and it made me realize I should be able to fire a small rapid group rapid fire with my eyes closed.

[Kyle O]

Duane Thomas had an interesting article on this subject in the Blue Press.

Thanks, Kyle.

Hey, credit is due where it is due.

I actually did some handgun reload practice last night with my eyes closed, and to my suprize it was smoother than when I looked at my magwell????

I did about I tried it while just looking away, and didn't do as well. I will explore this more later.

[Victor_R]

I tried this today with my draw and reloads. Worked very well. It seemed work better then having my eye's open. I noticed my strong hand canted more then it needed to so I corrected that. Something I didn't notice before. My reloads seemed a lot smoother. I will keep doing this. Thanks for the info.

[Jake Di Vita]

Jake, the trick is to remove some of the inputs to focus the others. Taking some of the vision out of the draw or reload makes you more attuned to the feel of the operation.

I understand tbe premise, I just haven't found that necessary for me. I've always been a "feel" kinda guy though.

[BoyGlock]

Anyone else do this? I was practicing indexing and just thought I would try it in the dark. (Yes this is with the Open gun) Did draws, step and index, off a table. This was really an interesting drill.

All you see is the dot. You either indexed properly or not. No visual references to que off of at all. I think I am going to incorporate this into my dryfire routine.

Good stuff. Also practice mag changes in the dark.

be

Duane Thomas had an interesting article on this subject in the Blue Press.

Thanks, Kyle.

Hey, credit is due where it is due.

I actually did some handgun reload practice last night with my eyes closed, and to my suprize it was smoother than when I looked at my magwell????

I did about I tried it while just looking away, and didn't do as well. I will explore this more later.

compared to looking at the magwell technique, which is the right/better technique should I practice now?

[JimmyZip]

I've been doing this , and noticed it helped me quite a bit last Sunday on a house stage where targets were close to mid, and just a few far poppers. When your index is solid, and you are relaxed, cool things can happen. I am currently a D in L and L-10, and U in production, but I managed a 3rd on that stage behind an A Ltd shooter, and an M open shooter with my G17 in production. As my index has improved, it seems I'm more likely to keep the gun "up" in my line of sight, and ready.

[benos]

compared to looking at the magwell technique, which is the right/better technique should I practice now?

I practiced both. In competition, I was more consistent overall if I looked right at the line where the mag well meets the frame.

And practcing mag changes in the dark, or by not looking at the mag well/line, is a good thing to groove the feeling of the movement without depending on your eyes, which will help under stress, especially if you didn't see the well/line clearly.

In practice, I had the best mag changes if I saw the mag falling out of the frame, before I saw the well line. But rarely did I see that in a match.

be

[BoyGlock]

compared to looking at the magwell technique, which is the right/better technique should I practice now?

I practiced both. In competition, I was more consistent overall if I looked right at the line where the mag well meets the frame.

And practcing mag changes in the dark, or by not looking at the mag well/line, is a good thing to groove the feeling of the movement without depending on your eyes, which will help under stress, especially if you didn't see the well/line clearly.

In practice, I had the best mag changes if I saw the mag falling out of the frame, before I saw the well line. But rarely did I see that in a match.

be

Thanks BE, I never thought of doing both if you have not advised it. I never saw them to compliment each other until now. I always thought they contradict each other. It was either or and never both. Often its how my mind works thats responsible for my very limiting thought.

[Laughing_jackal]

I had just finished up the section in Brian's book a couple of weeks ago where he writes about the awareness exercises that were just mentioned earlier. I tried them and I also learned a lot. I've been shooting USPSA off and on for about 2 years now, and I realized that my grip really isn't as neutral as I thought it was. Doing these awareness exercises really proved that I was gripping too much with my right hand, and also at a weird angle; I've been working on these awareness exercises continually.

When I look at my targets after shooting several rounds, I notice all my pasters are in the upper left most area, and I know I'm not using too much finger. However, I noticed that my thumbs were resting on the frame, nearly pushing against it. These exercises pointed this out, and now my groups are straightening out since I've changed my grip.

Also, these exercises prompted me to change the angle of my holster. Now when I draw, I'm right on the money almost every time. It's incredible how much a few degrees on a holster can make a difference, and how far a little awareness goes.

[benos]

Thanks BE, I never thought of doing both if you have not advised it. I never saw them to compliment each other until now. I always thought they contradict each other. It was either or and never both. Often its how my mind works thats responsible for my very limiting thought.

I think we can all have a good laugh at our own minds for that!

be

[alpha-charlie]

Duane Thomas had an interesting article on this subject in the Blue Press.

+1, After reading that article I immediately tried it out. To my surprise when I opened my eyes, the sights were actually lined up. This drill is definetely part of my dryfire routine now. Thanks Duane

[Duane Thomas]

Yer welcome, Matt.

[oldtrooper]

I've tried practicing in the dark, but today I don't really see the point behind it.

You get the same confirmation of index whether the room is lighted or not. Plus for me, practice is more about pushing the envelope both on speed and the amount of sensory input I can process. I've often turned everything on around me in an effort to create distractions from where I direct my attention. I used to go to the range and have a buddy throw small stones at me or slap my shoulder/head while running through a practice stage.

I was coaching a new shooter some years ago on shooting the Bianchi Mover and he was a little frustrated and asked me to "bring a BB gun and shoot me in the but when I screw-up", and I responded, "I don't have a BB gun that will shoot that fast or hold that many BB's". He gave me a look but didn't respond. We are still friends by the way.

[Downrange58]

Hey Noobie here.... Is there a link that describes what "Indexing" is? Much appreciated and thanks to all for what you contribute! I shot my first USPSA match last January, then placed 8th out of 33 shooters (beat a few A's)on one stage on my last match earlier this month.

[Jake Di Vita]

Hey noob, do a search.

[Downrange58]

Hey noob, do a search.

Yeah that worked really well.... I tried seven different searches and couldn't find a thing.

[smokshwn]

Hey noob, do a search.

Yeah that worked really well.... I tried seven different searches and couldn't find a thing.

Got to love a moderator who takes a little time to help out a new guy

The term index gets thrown around alot from magazine index to holster index etc but here it is being used to describe the position you would be in when your gun in held in a proper grip, you are in a solid firing stance, and the sights are properly aligned on target. If you have any background shooting a rifle you may have heard the term NPA (Natural Point of Aim). Finding this position and developing your ability to assume it with little effort will be the basis that you start each course of fire from and subsequently it will be this position that you then modify to address the different challenges or obstacles that you will encounter in a course of fire.

Here is a couple of threads for you

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=117099&st=0&p=1327821&hl=target%20index&fromsearch=1entry1327821

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=117099&st=0&p=1327821&hl=target%20index&fromsearch=1entry1327821