Tanfogliofan Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 I just received some 147gn bullets from Rainier Ballistics. I was thinking of using Titegroup for the powder at 3.6gns. According to hodgdon's pistol data, I should be just above the 136 PF. I also have IMR 700x I've been using to make my minor loads with 124gn bullets. 3.5gns gets me a 130 PF and the powder is very clean and fast burning. The recommended load according to hodgdon's pistol data for 147gn is 2.9gns of IMR 700x with a PF of 124. I'd up the charge .2 so i would make minor. The question I have is has anyone used these powders for making 147gn minor rounds? If so what has been your experience with them and what recommendations would you have? I like the 124gn loads I've been shooting but want to try 147gn out just to see the difference that everyone seems to debate about. The gun I'm running is the Tanfoglio Stock 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Rider Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I just received some 147gn bullets from Rainier Ballistics. I was thinking of using Titegroup for the powder at 3.6gns. According to hodgdon's pistol data, I should be just above the 136 PF. I also have IMR 700x I've been using to make my minor loads with 124gn bullets. 3.5gns gets me a 130 PF and the powder is very clean and fast burning. The recommended load according to hodgdon's pistol data for 147gn is 2.9gns of IMR 700x with a PF of 124. I'd up the charge .2 so i would make minor. The question I have is has anyone used these powders for making 147gn minor rounds? If so what has been your experience with them and what recommendations would you have? I like the 124gn loads I've been shooting but want to try 147gn out just to see the difference that everyone seems to debate about. The gun I'm running is the Tanfoglio Stock 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Rider Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I use TG 3.5 gr with the 147 PF 135 works well and accurate out my M&P Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted July 13, 2010 Author Share Posted July 13, 2010 Z Rider, Have you tried a 124gn round with the same power factor? If so could you discribe the difference? Does this require me to use a lighter recoil spring? This was recommended to me by one of the best out there (MM) to use 147 gn bullets. He said there is a substantial difference in the feel. I'll be putting together a batch of 147s with 3.5 of TG tonight. From what the reload data I've read your 3.5gns should be perfect. I'll be testing it out tommorow night. The gun I run has a polygonal barrel and seems to chrono higher than your standard rifled barrel. Thanks Z Rider! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I use 3.4gr TG under 147gr Zero jhps, 1.150", mixed brass. Gets 905-910 fps and very consistent (single-digit SD), and very accurate. -rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Burwell Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I use 3.4gr TG under 147gr Zero jhps, 1.150", mixed brass. Gets 905-910 fps and very consistent (single-digit SD), and very accurate. -rvb Ryan, any pressure problems with that? I have been a solo1000 user and have been considering the switch but I generally shoot closer to 138pf and I use montanna gold which usually takes a bit more powder to make the same pf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glshooter Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I use 3.2 of titegroup with 147 Berry's bullets out of a Glock 34. Velocity around 900 fps. I can go down to 3.1 but it cuts it too close for comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I use 3.4gr TG under 147gr Zero jhps, 1.150", mixed brass. Gets 905-910 fps and very consistent (single-digit SD), and very accurate. -rvb Ryan, any pressure problems with that? I have been a solo1000 user and have been considering the switch but I generally shoot closer to 138pf and I use montanna gold which usually takes a bit more powder to make the same pf. No pressure signs at all. I also use the load in my 9mm AR, which is direct blowback vs delayed, so I would expect if I were to see any warning signs (other than via primers), it would be with bulged bases out of that gun, but I have not seen any. I've been using this load since 2005. Probably 75k of 'em. With the various matches/chronos/temps etc, the min I've seen is ~131, max was this years Area 5 at 134.5. On my chrono, it's ALWAYS between 900-910, regardless if it's been sitting in the 95 degree sun, or I just pulled the ammo out of the cooler at 32 degrees. And TG is inexpensive compared to many common 147gr powders out there! -rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I use 3.4gr TG under 147gr Zero jhps, 1.150", mixed brass. Gets 905-910 fps and very consistent (single-digit SD), and very accurate. -rvb Ryan, any pressure problems with that? I have been a solo1000 user and have been considering the switch but I generally shoot closer to 138pf and I use montanna gold which usually takes a bit more powder to make the same pf. Why switch from Solo1000 ? Availability, cost, something else ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkatz44 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 My load for my M&P 9L: 3.4 gr TG, 147 CMJ, 1.130 OAL Makes about 130pf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Burwell Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Why switch from Solo1000 ? Availability, cost, something else ? /flame suit on/ The smoke, I shoot the MG 147 CMJs with the solo you would think it would be as smoke free as you can get but the reality is there is a good bit of it. I was going to give TG a go as well as VVN320. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Why switch from Solo1000 ? Availability, cost, something else ? /flame suit on/ The smoke, I shoot the MG 147 CMJs with the solo you would think it would be as smoke free as you can get but the reality is there is a good bit of it. I was going to give TG a go as well as VVN320. Ah. No flaming here. IMO, TG is sweet with JHP with reference to smoke free. Shooting a complete dark IDPA stage, with flashlight and I can only see a slight flash and no smoke when using TG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gohuskers Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Using 3.4 TG under a 147 precision delta FMJ, no problems at all in a Glock 34. OAL being 1.12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ormondopen Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Why switch from Solo1000 ? Availability, cost, something else ? /flame suit on/ The smoke, I shoot the MG 147 CMJs with the solo you would think it would be as smoke free as you can get but the reality is there is a good bit of it. I was going to give TG a go as well as VVN320. +++1 for N320, 3.5gr w/ 147 MG. very soft. 3.3gr w/ moly 147's, super soft. these are out of a 9 pro or SP01 shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 (edited) N310 makes even better loads than TG, with N320 being only slightly noticibly lighter than TG.... but at a price, and hassle of locating powder... that's why I've stuck w/ TG. -rvb Edited July 13, 2010 by rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I use 3.4gr TG under 147gr Zero jhps, 1.150", mixed brass. Gets 905-910 fps and very consistent (single-digit SD), and very accurate. -rvb Ryan, any pressure problems with that? I have been a solo1000 user and have been considering the switch but I generally shoot closer to 138pf and I use montanna gold which usually takes a bit more powder to make the same pf. No pressure signs at all. I also use the load in my 9mm AR, which is direct blowback vs delayed, so I would expect if I were to see any warning signs (other than via primers), it would be with bulged bases out of that gun, but I have not seen any. I've been using this load since 2005. Probably 75k of 'em. With the various matches/chronos/temps etc, the min I've seen is ~131, max was this years Area 5 at 134.5. On my chrono, it's ALWAYS between 900-910, regardless if it's been sitting in the 95 degree sun, or I just pulled the ammo out of the cooler at 32 degrees. And TG is inexpensive compared to many common 147gr powders out there! -rvb Dan, I'll second his remarks. My load is remarkably similar, just some differences in OAL. I get a PF of 136-139, depending, using Zero 147 JHP's or FNJ's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Hurt Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Yeah ... 3.3 grains of Titegroup with my Montana Gold 147's makes a sweet load for my Glock 34. And since I'm right handed, I bought all right handed bullets from MG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Rider Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Z Rider, Have you tried a 124gn round with the same power factor? If so could you discribe the difference? Does this require me to use a lighter recoil spring? This was recommended to me by one of the best out there (MM) to use 147 gn bullets. He said there is a substantial difference in the feel. I'll be putting together a batch of 147s with 3.5 of TG tonight. From what the reload data I've read your 3.5gns should be perfect. I'll be testing it out tommorow night. The gun I run has a polygonal barrel and seems to chrono higher than your standard rifled barrel. Thanks Z Rider! I tested for accuracy using 5 diff powders and used 115 124 & 147 bullets With my gun the 147 w/3.5 TG was the most accurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted July 14, 2010 Author Share Posted July 14, 2010 OK. Last night I loaded up 100 rounds with TG at 3.3gns under a 147 bullet and 100 rounds with IMR 700x at 3.0gns under a 147 bullet. I have 100 of the 124gn rounds I typically shoot that I'll also shoot tonight for this comparison. I use 3.4gns of IMR 700x under the 124 bullet. The reason for the use of IMR 700x is that at one time I couldn't find any powder anywhere except for 8lbs of the stuff. It has been a very clean, accurate, and reliable powder. I've had it for almost two years and still haven't used it all! I think I'm down to about 3 lbs left and hope to burn it up. Once in a while I'll use TG for matches. It seems to be softer than the IMR when dialed to the same P factor. Anyhow, thank you all for your feedback on this thread. I'll have a full report tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 Well I went to the Northwest Challenge out at the Kitsap rifle and revolver club. It was a match with 12 stages and a 317 round count. Most all the stages were long course with a number of swingers and moving targets. The majority of the targets were setup so you really had to be a shooter and not so much a hoser. All stages were methodical and challenging which forced you to really put some effort into planning your route. The rounds I prepared for the match were very accurate and a real joy to shoot. I couldn't believe just how flat the gun was in recoil. I even let a few of the guys in the squad try it out and everyone who did only had one thing to say. "Wow,that's cheating!" My reply was also the same every time. "So?!" lol I got to the chrono on the third stage. I was really nervous since I wasn't able to chrono the round before the match but I felt confident that I was given the right recipe for the round. From shot to shot, three total, during the chrono the rounds showed to be very consistant in speed. The first shot 905, the second shot 907, and the third 903. That put me right at 133 PF. This is definately going to be the round I use from now on. I want to thank you all for your input on this thread. I'm very pleased with the results. I placed third in my class and had zero gun and ammo issues. I did have issues with shooting boxes being too small,(Dang it!!) and had some issues with being too eager on the trigger. This equals mikes and no shoots. The match was super fun regardless of the operator error parts. Thanks again to all for helping me find the right load. Sean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 glad it worked out for ya! -rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Which combination did you use at the match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBA2 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 OK. Last night I loaded up 100 rounds with TG at 3.3gns under a 147 bullet and 100 rounds with IMR 700x at 3.0gns under a 147 bullet. I have 100 of the 124gn rounds I typically shoot that I'll also shoot tonight for this comparison. I use 3.4gns of IMR 700x under the 124 bullet. The reason for the use of IMR 700x is that at one time I couldn't find any powder anywhere except for 8lbs of the stuff. It has been a very clean, accurate, and reliable powder. I've had it for almost two years and still haven't used it all! I think I'm down to about 3 lbs left and hope to burn it up. Once in a while I'll use TG for matches. It seems to be softer than the IMR when dialed to the same P factor. Anyhow, thank you all for your feedback on this thread. I'll have a full report tomorrow. of the three loads that you worked up here was the TG your favorite or were the TG and IMR 700x both equally soft? How did they compare to the 124 IMR that you worked up? considerably softer? thanks PBA2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted July 29, 2010 Author Share Posted July 29, 2010 The load I went with at the match was what I thought to be 3.3gns of Tightgroup under a 147gn CMJ round nose. When I got to the chrono and weighed out the bullet and powder the numbers that popped up were 3.1gns of TG under a 147gn bullet. When I saw the discrepency in the powder I was definately nervous since there is no going minor-minor. Arg! But when the FPS came out to good numbers I was quite relieved. Now going back to the Tightgroup versus the IMR 700x. One thing I noticed was the IMR 147 gn rounds had quite a more snap to it feeling more like a 124gn round cycling much faster it seemed. I took a look at the casing to inspect it for any signs of too much pressure. I noticed that the primers were showing signs of high pressure. I used Federal magnum primers during the test so this might have some significance but it did raise concern. I didn't want to subject my baby girl, "Vitalia", to any more stress than she has to persevere. Yes I named my Stock 2. lol Great Italian name huh?! Anyhow, I do have to say the load felt great and the guns stayed incredibly flat. Target aquisition was instantaneous! Now the TG 147gn rounds also felt nice. They were consistant from shot to shot. The IMR had a couple of rounds that didn't feel the same as the rest. I think the flat disc shape of the IMR powder caused an inconsistant powder feed giving me verying powder weights. It is designed for shotguns and not so much handgun loads. Tightgroup measured very consistant every time I stopped to weigh it. It did feel like the slide was moving considerably slower with Tightgroup. I thought about putting in a lighter recoil spring in hopes of speeding up the slide movement. The thing that I felt was different was the ignition of the powder. The IMR had more of a pop to it where the TG had more of a gassy push to it. I must say I did like the pop of the IMR considerably more than the TG due to how the gun would come right back to position. I did go with Tightgroup for the match because of the consistancy of weight. If I was at the chrono and I have rounds that very in powder weight by .2 or so, which with IMR 700x is a large step, it could mean I'm there just to run the stages and not be allowed to compete. There is no Minor-Minor. Now the 124 gn bullets over IMR is what I have used for about two and a half years and is one awsome setup. It feels great to shoot and is as clean as can be. I definately will continue to use it in the future along with the 147gn rounds with TG. If you have any 700x sitting around, give it a try and tell me what your opinion is. I find it interesting just how the type of powder you use versus another can be so different. The next load I'm going to try for a minor load is the slow burning high gas powder Hodgdon's Longshot. I like how it runs in my open gun so why not try it loaded to minor for my production gun? You'll see it soon on this amazing site. Good luck and shoot straight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenDot Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 Just a bump. I'm trying the 147gr Zero FMJ and Titegroup combo. FC Brass Federal #100 primers 3.2 - 3.4?gr tiegroup 147gr Zero FMJ G34 and G17 This should be alot better than the facotry 115's i was shooting for months.... I did start reloading so now I get to play around. Dillon 550 rocks. Can somebody properly explain power factors? What kind of results can I expect with the load mentioned above?I shoot steel on thursdays and USPSA once a month. Much thanks Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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