IDPA Rules Addendum

[sirveyr]

Well, here it is: IDPA Rules Addendum. I've only skimmed through it. I'm not really sure if it will help anything or not. I wish I had that "popcorn eating emoticon".

[Brian Gonsalves]

I've only skimmed over it as well. My first question is what do they have against .45 GAP? Not sure I would use it, but what difference could/would it make?

5. Enhanced Service Revolver Division (ESR)

Additional language to A. page 24

A. Be any revolver of 9mm caliber (.355" or larger) or larger bore diameter utilizing rimmed or rimless cartridges, which may safely make a power factor of 165,000. The use of trimmed (shortened) ammunition is not allowed. Ammunition used must match the caliber listed on the gun. The only exceptions would be: .38 special in .357 magnum, 9mm in .38 super, 40S&W in 10mm, 44 special in .44 magnum.

Also, does the change in the Cylinder latch rule really allow any change?

Addition to PERMITED Modifications page 25

8. Oversized cylinder latches that do not measure more than .25 inches from the frame. (does not include latches that extend beyond factory length)

Deletion from EXCLUDED modifications page 25

1. Oversized cylinder latches

Edited July 7, 2010 by Brian Gonsalves

[jar]

All I know is that my friend who spent $170 on a Browning Hi-Power slide stop after getting dqed at indoor nationals for an extended one is going to be PISSED.

[lugnut]

All I know is that my friend who spent $170 on a Browning Hi-Power slide stop after getting dqed at indoor nationals for an extended one is going to be PISSED.

Oh my!!! You aint kidding!

My initial thoughts are the addendum is a little light. I wonder if they put too much emphasis on the multigun stuff.

[Steve Koski]

Why? He broke the rules. Now the rules have changed. Life goes on. Get pissed if you want.

[salilus]

No Tac-Sequence AND tac-priority? That is like the meat and potatoes for indoor IDPA clubs. Who hasn't shot a V shaped array of targets near to far in sequence and priority?

[CSEMARTIN]

I like this rule:

Appendix SIX - IDPA Organization

Additional language to F. Sanctioned Matches. page 63

Blind stages are not allowed for use in sanctioned matches.

The use of long guns in a sanctioned match is not allowed. This

does not mean that there is no place for a shotgun or rifle in

IDPA. Sides matches using a shotgun or rifle can be fun and an

additional source of income for a match. Inert (non-firing) long

guns may be used as stage props.

[Ty Hamby]

I've only skimmed over it as well. My first question is what do they have against .45 GAP? Not sure I would use it, but what difference could/would it make?

5. Enhanced Service Revolver Division (ESR)

Additional language to A. page 24

A. Be any revolver of 9mm caliber (.355" or larger) or larger bore diameter utilizing rimmed or rimless cartridges, which may safely make a power factor of 165,000. The use of trimmed (shortened) ammunition is not allowed. Ammunition used must match the caliber listed on the gun. The only exceptions would be: .38 special in .357 magnum, 9mm in .38 super, 40S&W in 10mm, 44 special in .44 magnum.

Also, does the change in the Cylinder latch rule really allow any change?

Addition to PERMITED Modifications page 25

8. Oversized cylinder latches that do not measure more than .25 inches from the frame. (does not include latches that extend beyond factory length)

Deletion from EXCLUDED modifications page 25

1. Oversized cylinder latches

I guess my 625 running 45Autorim just became illegal. I know they were trying to kill GAP in ACP but left out use of AUTORIM since the barrel is marked 45ACP Im SOL Thanks IDPA:(

3. Enhanced Service Pistol Division (ESP)

Addition to PERMITED Modifications/Features page 22

15. Extended slide release.

16. Customization of the slide by adding front cocking

serrations, engraving, tri-top, carry melts and high power

cuts.

17. Ambidextrous or right side magazine releases.

ESP and CDP extended slide releases. Thanks IDPA:) I can use that one

Edited July 7, 2010 by Ty Hamby

[Joe4d]

Sorry doesnt look like they did much but ad a few tweaks seems they wasted alot of ink addressing things that dont matter. No shortend ammo in revolver but then list a hole list of acceptable substitutes, would have taken less ink to just say NO 38 short colt cause that is what they were doing.

I just wish they would come up with a rule book instead of the suggestion pamphlet they have now. Still full of mays, should, encouraged to, and wishy washy verbage.

[DWFAN]

Hmm.. Legal slide lightening.

16. Customization of the slide by adding front cocking

serrations, engraving, tri-top, carry melts and high power

cuts.

Im also curious what they mean here, are they legal or not?

8. Oversized cylinder latches that do not measure more than .25 inches from the frame. (does not include latches that extend beyond factory length)

Edited July 7, 2010 by DWFAN

[rvb]

They made a few good changes.

Again very equipment focused. seemed a lot of the "hot topics" were ignored.

Addition to C 15. page 10

A. Pistols may only be loaded...

They could have also cleared up the wording about mag capacity (pg 19). Seems to always be confusion among some SOs and new members about really requiring mags to be of same capacity as worded, or loaded to same capacity.

Tactical Sequence may not be combined with Tactical Priority

...retrieves and properly stows the device before the last shot of the string is fired. The prior sentence does not include devices dislodged from a carrier which ALWAYS receives a PE.

The use of the word “Modifications” also includes any factory standard features.

At least one full ha[n]d must be visible

Blind stages are not allowed for use in sanctioned matches.

Typically steel is considered engaged when the required number of rounds has been fired

VERY glad to see those.

Competitors may NOT cross any opening (doorways, windows, open spaces, etc) without engaging targets.

This is both good and bad. Good that they tried to clear it up... but what if all targets are engaged, or none visible to engage from the opening? This reads as I have to be in the act of engaging. This affects course designers as well as competitors. maybe they mean to imply "if un-engaged targets are visible?" ... So does this mean I can leave cover as long as I'm shooting?

And regarding the forum, it seems for years it's been the "un-official/official" place for rule interpretations. For years I've been hoping they would put an official interpretation repository on their website and update the wording on page 9 about the official version of the rulebook. So what now? Nothing in their letter says the forum is a place for official interpretations, just "discussion." It would be WONDERFUL if they would give someone a title such as uspsa's Director/NROI to get OFFICIAL rule interpretations published. The forum still seems like a place people's ideas, nothing more.

Guess I'll go post these thoughts on the new official forum.....

-rvb

[Ahab]

Ryan, that's the same question I had about cover. I have always thought that you're behind cover as long as there are no un-engaged targets visible. So for example at the last club match, you started in the open and shot two targets while moving to P2. The way I understand the rules, once those two targets are shot, you're "behind cover" as there are no un-engaged targets visible to you. That's something I really wish the rulebook would clear up.

[rvb]

So regarding the new gun rules (was specifically thinking about the 42oz change), does this go into effect now, or in 12 months?

Stability of Firearm Criteria Rule

This rule applies to firearms only; specifically any rule change that would disallow a firearm previously approved for IDPA competition. Firearm criteria changes will only be reviewed every two (2) years. Any firearm criteria changes will go into effect twelve (12) months after approval.

So, since this rule would allow more guns instead of disallow guns, does that means it goes into effect now?

It says "any criteria changes... 12 months after," but I'm reading this that a gun that's 41.5oz is now legal immediately, since it's allowed vs disallowed?

Gheesh. Can simple things be made any more confusing?

-rvb

Edited July 7, 2010 by rvb

[Steve_P]

I believe that the release stated that the new rules go into effect on August 1st.

Steve

[rvb]

I guess my 625 running 45Autorim just became illegal.

Stability of Firearm Criteria Rule

This rule applies to firearms only; specifically any rule change that would disallow a firearm previously approved for IDPA competition. Firearm criteria changes will only be reviewed every two (2) years. Any firearm criteria changes will go into effect twelve (12) months after approval.

I believe that the release stated that the new rules go into effect on August 1st.

I don't see how that interpretation can be 100% true. CERTAINLY guns that are now being disallowed have 12 months before they become illegal... that's why my question was for clarity about guns that are becomming legal regarding the stability rule. Again, I guess I'll move this to the idpaforum for an, um, official[?] interpretation...

-rvb

[lugnut]

This one:

"At no time should a competitor stand directly in a “window” or

port to engage targets. Competitors must “slice the pie” around

the edge of the “window” or port."

has me puzzled. These are the things that make me crazy and make it difficult to SO a match. If a shooter comes to a port that is say 18x18 and starts engaging the targets in priority- which I understand... when is he/she NOT using proper cover? If 50% of their upper body is behind cover are they not using cover? Who cares where their legs/hips are if they are not exposed??

The definition of "cover" in general is sometimes the most nebulous in this sport. For example, if you engage some targets from cover at position one, and have to move to position two which is another cover/wall... can you start a reload on the way to P2 when your "next" cover position is "covering" you from the remaining threats?? Some say yes, some say no.... I've seen some SOs argue that you aren't using cover if you aren't right up to it.... some shooters will prefer to use cover standing back 10 or 15 feet for example... so in essence.. isn't everything between P1 and P2 cover??? Ughh.

[Loves2Shoot]

Hmm.. Legal slide lightening.

16. Customization of the slide by adding front cocking

serrations, engraving, tri-top, carry melts and high power

cuts.

Those are not slide lightening and if you talked to IDPA, have always been legal since the are common cuts that you can get on factory guns. It was a clarification for those who argued that taking ANY metal off a slide was "slide lightening."

[DWFAN]

Hmm.. Legal slide lightening.

16. Customization of the slide by adding front cocking

serrations, engraving, tri-top, carry melts and high power

cuts.

Those are not slide lightening and if you talked to IDPA, have always been legal since the are common cuts that you can get on factory guns. It was a clarification for those who argued that taking ANY metal off a slide was "slide lightening."

I knew tri-topping was legal before, or hoped so with all the Tri'd guns Ive seen shooting esp. I just think it was interesting that they came out and clarified it. Im sure a tritop(if there's enough there to take off) and highpower cuts on my PM-9 would lighten up the slide some.

[Ahab]

Lugnut hits on the same issue I had with the new rules - that "available cover" still really isn't clearly defined. I've had the same argument with my Match Director over what constitutes available cover - to my mind, if you've shot all the threat targets and are not exposed to any un-shot targets, you're "behind cover" regardless of where you are on the COF. I have also heard it explained that you're "behind cover" when you're within the confines of the width of the wall/whatever is being used as the cover object.

However, I don't want to be a total debbie-downer. The simple fact that IDPA is releasing rule updates and definitions is a good thing, and shows a step towards increasing shooter growth and clarifying things.

[GForceLizard]

Does anyone know the reason for the revolver ammo clarifications? (I don't shoot a revolver.) Is there some magic to 38 short Colt or other shortened ammo? Or is this about safety and people pushing ammo to an unsafe level? Any insight to the rules?

[Greg Bell]

short ammo loads faster in the cylinder. Ok for some calibers but not others.

[Ty Hamby]

short ammo loads faster in the cylinder. OK for some calibers but not others.

So why then no Auto rim in SSR. 45AR is no way shorter or faster than using 45ACP on moons which a 625 is designed for. Auto rim haves identical internal cartridge specifications, and is only cosmetically different. Why is 45AR getting a death sentence. I understand GAP and short colt that has a motive behind it. Whats the motive for banning 45AR?

[jmorris]

You guys, don't you know with any change there is more opportunity to game?

So you can't use GAP anymore. They said nothing of internal case volume or case construction. You just machine cases or at least inserts that can be pressed into NT ACP brass that will give the same volume and more weight at the base to help eject and you retain the small primer. At least this is not something just anyone can open up a catalog and achieve.

You just have to look at it as a "glass half full" kind of thing.

Edited July 9, 2010 by jmorris

[Greg Bell]

Whats the motive for banning 45AR?

You'd have to ask Robert Ray, send him an email and see.

[millisec]

This one made me very happy... "Blind stages are not allowed for use in sanctioned matches". I recently shot one that not only was blind but was a little complicated AND the targets and NT's were dressed in assorted multicolor tshirts including tye die and in a confined space. First shooter, first stage, first thing in the morning and I blew that one at least time wise. First time I ever encountered blind stages or disguised targets let alone together.

At least for me most of the other changes are trivial or irrelevent to me. The only ones that puzzle me are the cover changes others have commented on and the big one is the part about having to engage while crossing openings????

"Competitors may NOT cross any opening (doorways, windows, open spaces, etc) without engaging targets."

At typical matches you come up to an opening, stop and clear threats in whatever sequence may be required from cover and THEN cross. Some may engage while crossing but its a little impractical when the openings are small. Or is it to imply you can cross an opening w/o firing if you crouch below the opening? Or is it that they are forcing IDPA to be a more shoot on the move sport?

Edited July 9, 2010 by millisec