Is it INDIAN (not the arrow) always really true!?

[GrumpyOne]

For heaven's sake , even with a hypothetical unlimited ammo/ practice scenario few are willing to chase greatness?

Yes, even with a hypothetical unlimited ammo/practice scenario, few are willing to chase greatness. It just costs too much, not in money but in time, and work, and application, and focus, and putting just about everything else in your life on hold, perhaps indefinitely. Most people simply don't have that capability within themselves. This is life. And ya know what, the people who did make it, in overwhelming probability did it without starting with the advantage of having an easy, unlimited ammo availability, and all the free time in the world to practice, simply handed to them.

Very true! And Duane, you can use my analogy in the Blue Press, if you like!

[j1b]

Soooo . . . the people that have the unlimited access to time and ammo in order to practice didn't rub a lantern to get it.

They had to work their ass off to get good enough for a company to then make the investment in them. See, they had to scrape and fight for everything too. They just decided to take the risk on shooting, and for a few it paid off.

You can't make someone want to be the best. Hell, someone can't make themselves want to be the best. It's not about wants, it's about choices. Focus, dedication, and execution. It's about choosing to win, not wanting to win. If it was just about wanting to win, then everyone would win.

And just for a tick of humor - and clarity - shooting a million rounds a year based on a 365 day calendar yields about 2,700 rounds a day. I remember a good friend I used to shoot a ton with and I went through this exercise. Now, that doesn't include any downtime for guns. So if you "shoot out" a barrel in 50,000 rounds, you have to replace the barrel at least every 18 days. Based on that, you'd likely need several guns. Like . . . 10. All set up identical.

Now you have to sleep. So for a good base here, let's say a workday is 10 hours a day. You have to shoot 270 rounds an hour. Every hour. For 10 hours a day. Everyday. And you can't even take Christmas day off. Oh, and if you're reloading . . . ugh. Best just to get a manufacturer to provide the BB's - who the hell wants to crank the handle 2,700 times a day????

Yeah - anyone offers me a job to shoot 1,000,000 rounds in a year? They better pay me two dollars a round. Otherwise that would just begin to feel like work - and I thought most of us did this for fun : )

J

[TRUbor9]

Soooo . . . the people that have the unlimited access to time and ammo in order to practice didn't rub a lantern to get it.

They had to work their ass off to get good enough for a company to then make the investment in them. See, they had to scrape and fight for everything too. They just decided to take the risk on shooting, and for a few it paid off.

You can't make someone want to be the best. Hell, someone can't make themselves want to be the best. It's not about wants, it's about choices. Focus, dedication, and execution. It's about choosing to win, not wanting to win. If it was just about wanting to win, then everyone would win.

And just for a tick of humor - and clarity - shooting a million rounds a year based on a 365 day calendar yields about 2,700 rounds a day. I remember a good friend I used to shoot a ton with and I went through this exercise. Now, that doesn't include any downtime for guns. So if you "shoot out" a barrel in 50,000 rounds, you have to replace the barrel at least every 18 days. Based on that, you'd likely need several guns. Like . . . 10. All set up identical.

Now you have to sleep. So for a good base here, let's say a workday is 10 hours a day. You have to shoot 270 rounds an hour. Every hour. For 10 hours a day. Everyday. And you can't even take Christmas day off. Oh, and if you're reloading . . . ugh. Best just to get a manufacturer to provide the BB's - who the hell wants to crank the handle 2,700 times a day????

Yeah - anyone offers me a job to shoot 1,000,000 rounds in a year? They better pay me two dollars a round. Otherwise that would just begin to feel like work - and I thought most of us did this for fun : )

J

and dont forget they have to compete very often too...

[Field]

this topic really just boils down to people making excuses how they cant get good because they arent rich and dont have a big gun range in thier backyard to practice.

and then the miguided notion that all the big names and winners are only good because they are sponsored and get paid to shoot. get real. they had to get good in the first place all by themselves you know.

if theres a will, there is a way. well.... to an extent anyways.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Field

[Duane Thomas]

Very true! And Duane, you can use my analogy in the Blue Press, if you like!

Thanks, Andy.

[GForceLizard]

New shooters get confused by equipment. It's easy to have unsuitable equipment but there is a lot of equipment that gets the job done well. Most of the top shooters they see or hear about have the finest equipment. But the viewer often gets the relationship backwards and focuses on the gun. The work made these people good not their equipment.

We know the importance of the mental game. If you don't believe in your equipment you will fail. There are so many examples of great shooters using all kinds of different guns. There is truth in using what works for you.

[Brammy]

This is sooooo boring.............. dry fire yada yada yada , perfect practice yada yada yada

How about this ? No one is going to beat Tgo ,Max or Travis without shooting a pissload of bullets downrange.

No need to bring up the good intelligent practice vs. idiotic hosing ok? That's a given.

Some food for thought....

When a top shooter tells you they regret shooting till they were knee deep in brass and could have done better knowing what they know now, does it not sound a bit like second guessing yourself ? What you did in the past made you what you are.

Besides if practicing more was all there was to it, how could anyone sell you classes eh ?

Going to make popcorn now.

The Indian or Arrow can be argued a million ways like the chicken or egg.

One thing for sure though you will not progress in this sport without hard work, practice,etc and LOTS OF ROUNDS DOWNRANGE. All the guys at the top of sport have put and continue to put thousands and thousands of rounds downrange, to both get where they are and remain there.

All of them have ended up knee deep in brass in the past and continue to do so. Why then do we consider it a 'mistake' to do so? Out of curiosity, what is the least amount of rounds anyone has shot and made it to GM? I would guess that figure must be in the tens of thousands. Yes it is only one component of the path to GM, but you can't 'Shoot as fast as you can see' without SHOOTING!..and lots of it too.

Unlimited ammo and budgets I say hell yes in a wonderful fantasy world!!! That will make me better, not by itself of course, but it definitely couldn't make me any worse!!!

My budget for shooting is limited..500 rounds per month....and I know my development will be slow, but I stick with my dry fire practice and continue to dream for the day I will be on Team Glock...with Jesse of course.

Wish I had more arrows.

[Singlestack]

My budget for shooting is limited..500 rounds per month....and I know my development will be slow, but I stick with my dry fire practice and continue to dream for the day I will be on Team Glock...with Jesse of course.

Hate to ruin your dream but Jesse shoots for Smith and Wesson.

[Duane Thomas]

Another dream, shattered and left smoking in the dust.

[Brammy]

My budget for shooting is limited..500 rounds per month....and I know my development will be slow, but I stick with my dry fire practice and continue to dream for the day I will be on Team Glock...with Jesse of course.

Hate to ruin your dream but Jesse shoots for Smith and Wesson.

Crap!!!... That's what happens when you keep staring at the girl and not the gun!!!

[Woody Allen]

Ya know, youse guys really haven't got a clue. For a clue, view the following:

[Duane Thomas]

Rick Astley - Never Gonna Give You Up?

Yeah, I feel really clued into that whole Indian and arrow thing.

[Coach]

Another dream, shattered and left smoking in the dust.

It is still a good dream.

[Ramas]

This is sooooo boring.............. dry fire yada yada yada , perfect practice yada yada yada

How about this ? No one is going to beat Tgo ,Max or Travis without shooting a pissload of bullets downrange.

No need to bring up the good intelligent practice vs. idiotic hosing ok? That's a given.

Some food for thought....

When a top shooter tells you they regret shooting till they were knee deep in brass and could have done better knowing what they know now, does it not sound a bit like second guessing yourself ? What you did in the past made you what you are.

Besides if practicing more was all there was to it, how could anyone sell you classes eh ?

Going to make popcorn now.

The Indian or Arrow can be argued a million ways like the chicken or egg.

One thing for sure though you will not progress in this sport without hard work, practice,etc and LOTS OF ROUNDS DOWNRANGE. All the guys at the top of sport have put and continue to put thousands and thousands of rounds downrange, to both get where they are and remain there.

All of them have ended up knee deep in brass in the past and continue to do so. Why then do we consider it a 'mistake' to do so? Out of curiosity, what is the least amount of rounds anyone has shot and made it to GM? I would guess that figure must be in the tens of thousands. Yes it is only one component of the path to GM, but you can't 'Shoot as fast as you can see' without SHOOTING!..and lots of it too.

Unlimited ammo and budgets I say hell yes in a wonderful fantasy world!!! That will make me better, not by itself of course, but it definitely couldn't make me any worse!!!

My budget for shooting is limited..500 rounds per month....and I know my development will be slow, but I stick with my dry fire practice and continue to dream for the day I will be on Team Glock...with Jesse of course.

Wish I had more arrows.

Exactly what I meant.

[simonsay]

Passion + Ability = Results

In a previous life, I've seen gifted naturals beat by those that worked harder; and the other way around. Those at the very top, typically have both, passion and ability.

Edited July 16, 2010 by simonsay

[AlamoShooter]

I told a friend just this past weekend. I don't want to go to match, that ' I ' have a good chance of winning. I like competing against shooter with True Skill.

I remember a day Labor worker saying one time about a good looking girl that stopped at the job-site. He said " If I had a nice car and lots of cash , I could get a girl just like that."

I just said "really you think so? , her name in on my pay check"

She didn't just look good she was smart to = she was the Comptroller for a large construction co.

[Woody Allen]

Rick Astley - Never Gonna Give You Up?

Yeah, I feel really clued into that whole Indian and arrow thing.

The lyrics. It is a song about DEVOTION.

"A full commitment's what I'm thinking of...."

USPSA/IPSC does not lead to a career. No $$$ in. Not enough to even cover your expenses.

An irrational devotion. It takes a devoted (some say irrationally obsessed)Indian and a sufficient resources (Arrows).

[benos]

Rick Astley - Never Gonna Give You Up?

Yeah, I feel really clued into that whole Indian and arrow thing.

The lyrics. It is a song about DEVOTION.

"A full commitment's what I'm thinking of...."

USPSA/IPSC does not lead to a career. No $$$ in. Not enough to even cover your expenses.

An irrational devotion. It takes a devoted (some say irrationally obsessed)Indian and a sufficient resources (Arrows).

For me it was just pure devotion. When I landed in AZ from Ohio in 1978, I had a wife, a 2 year old daughter (now 34, and working next to me now) a '66 chevy pickup loaded full of whatever would fit from Ohio, and 50 bucks in my pocket - and that was it. Everything I did, including the move, and for the next 20 years, was geared toward shooting.

be

[GForceLizard]

Bob Vogel going to shoot CDP at the IDPA Nationals. I guess using a Glock he's going to get his ass kicked by those sweet 1911/2011s? Or is G21 the most favorable 45ACP?

[Paul Burtchell]

This here Indian does better with better bows and arrows.

[Steve J]

It's definitely the arrows when the indian has chosen POS gear, or worse, good gear he can't or won't maintain. At the highest level of course, it's the indian. (by the way, the chicken came first.)

[Paul Burtchell]

It's definitely the arrows when the indian has chosen POS gear, or worse, good gear he can't or won't maintain. At the highest level of course, it's the indian. (by the way, the chicken came first.)

But Steve, the real question is: "Which came first, the anchovie or the onion" ??

Edited July 23, 2010 by Paul Burtchell

[Duane Thomas]

This here Indian does better with better bows and arrows.

As Brian Enos has said, "It may be the Indian and not the arrow....but who wants a crappy bow?"

[Field]

good gear can help you shoot a little quicker and more accurately but it aint gonna help with all the other good stuff

[Duane Thomas]

Good shooters DO tend to have better guns than average shooters - if by "better gun" you mean a piece that's innately easier to shoot than most other options - and those guns will, almost invariably, be customized to a greater or lesser degree. Some people figure that's why good shooters can shoot the way they can. "Well, of course you can outshoot me, you have a (fill in the blank). If I had a (fill in the blank), I could shoot like that."

No.

I'm not saying that having good equipment isn't important, but let's not get the cart before the horse. The reason we tend toward guns with short, light trigger actions like, say, 1911s and Glocks, and the reason we customize our guns with high visibility sights, trigger jobs, etc. is because, when you reach a certain skill level, you just get really impatient with anything (like, for instance, poorly visible sights or a crappy trigger) that stands between you and maximum performance. It's not that that particular gun with that particular list of modifications, placed in the hands of an average shooter, is suddenly going to make them an above average shooter. You can't buy competence. You can't even rent it.