Of Glock Bulges, U-dies, FCDs etc.

[ardo]

I started reloading just a few months ago, so please go easy on me...

I use a .40S&W Lee FCD in a single stage press to de-Glock all of my range pickup brass. This makes the work real easy for Hornady's sizing die in my LnL AP. Doesn't take much time either, so I'm happy with that setup. I do want to ask about the 9mm though.

I use Hornady dies for everything, with the exception of Lee FCD that's used for crimping, in all the calibers I reload. I notice some of my range pickup brass in 9mm has a thin ring next to the case head after resizing, but I haven't figured out yet if this may be causing issues with chambering finished rounds in my SP-01 Shadow. I don't think that the standard barrel in the Shadow qualifies as 'competition barrel' thus an EGW U-die should not be required. However, I do get an occasional FTFeed, so I've been barrel-checking almost 100% of my 9mm reloads. If I understand correctly, the rounds must be dropping into the barrel freely, AND they must fall out freely when you turn the barrel upside-down. Well, all of my rounds seem to drop in freely, but some require a very slight pull by the extractor ring to get them out.

I guess my question is: how do you know if a round is failing the barrel test because of a sizing problem and not because of, say, OAL variation?

I sorted out about 100 Glock cases from my last pickup, and do intend to load them to my standard OAL & check afterwards if they fail the Shadow barrel test more than usual 5% that I've been getting so far. I can still use those in my Jericho 941 which seems to be much less sensitive to the mistakes I make...

[Jman]

I guess my question is: how do you know if a round is failing the barrel test because of a sizing problem and not because of, say, OAL variation?

Hello, Welcome to the Forum!

In my experience most chamber check failures are the result of a poor crimp.

Most (not all) OAL issues show themselves as feeding failures.

The bullet ogive (curved shape, nearing the nose) on some bullets can, if loaded to long cause a round to fail a chamber check.

Don't go crazy on the crimp. Just take out the belling.

My preference in 9mm is a slight hour-glass shape on the finished round.

[Greg Bell]

I load 9 with a Lee carbide sizing die, Dillon powder drop, Redding competition seating die, and Dillon crimp die on a 650

I set the sizing die so it's all the way down touching the shell plate, bell just enough to seat the bullet, and crimp to .001 this has worked well for me with 9mm. I dont think there is the need to smash the round into submission unless you have an overly tight chamber.

[pjb45]

I have a lot of Glock fired brass. I use an EGW undersize die. Please note; I have a Nowlin barrel. These barrels are known for being tight. I have no problems when I use the EGW undersize die. The bullet does expand the case at the top. You can see the difference.

I use the LEE FCD die for the crimp. No problems.

With this LEO range .40S&W brass with multiple head stamps I can get several reloads out of it.

I do not have AOL problems at all. I have to load long - 1.17+.

Because I run the EGW undersize and LEE FCD dies I only ever check my ammo prior to Nationals or A2. For local matches I rarely and I mean rarely have a FTE/FTF associated with the ammo.

[98sr20ve]

I suspect your wasting your time with the FCD. Take the magic/voodoo away from the FCD. It is nothing more then a sizing die and a crimp die built into one. On top of it all it's not even a GOOD sizing die. It's a much worse sizing die then a regular Lee Sizing Die and I suspect it much worse then your Hornady sizing die. This is born out of actually measuring all my Lee dies, getting other people to measure their lee dies and my single Hornady die set. On average the Lee FCD is .006" bigger then the Lee Sizing die. Repeat that for effect. .006". Some people feel the need to spend $ on a U Die that is nothing more then a standard Lee Sizing die sized .001" smaller then the Lee die. .006 is a huge amount bigger then it should be to be a good sizers. I know the FCD is not meant to size the case but everyone is using using them to fix the so called "Glock Bulge" and thats just a fancy name for a sizing problem. This thread is about the GLock Bulge so I am focusing on that not the other effects the FCD might have (good or bad).

Let me run you through some tests to see what your FCD is actually doing. 9mm is the hardest to explain because it's tapered and hard to measure. But this applies to pretty much all the FCD's I and others have measure. Take a unsized but fired case and size it with your FCD. Now measure the mouth and base area of a straight wall case. Compare #'s to your reloading manual. You will find the FCD on average sizes the case to just at SAMMI spec listed in your manual. Some size much smaller. Thats not a good thing but thats another post/thread. Now take your sizing die and size a case. You will find it sizes about .006" smaller (if it's good and not all of them are). Take a good look at the carbide ring and compare the location of that ring to the Hornady or Lee. The FCD is just a Lee sizer (at its base). It's located in the same spot as the other Lee sizers. The Hornady is just a smidge higher then the Lee but it's barely measurable as far as a true difference. So if the carbide rings are in the same basic place and the FCD is .006" BIGGER, which die is a better sizer? Trust me it's not the FCD

Why add a step to the process. Size a case using the Hornady, drop it in the case gauge. If it passes then you can be pretty sure all your cases will pass for sizing issues. Make sure the sizing die is barely touching the shellplate. Not binding on it but just kissing it. Crimp, OAL, and bulged cases due to crooked bullets is another issue altogether. CZ's can have very short throats. So OAL is the thing to really watch out for. Hornady seating dies suck for making the bullets go in crocked in my experiance. Every step from sizing to seating to crimp can be validated if you just take the time to pull the cases at the right time and just look at what its doing.

Edited July 1, 2010 by 98sr20ve

[ardo]

Thank you all for responding, I'll revisit my setup tomorrow (got a new bullet to work with, anyway) & take some measurements to see what's really going on. Thanks again!

[GrumpyOne]

I started reloading just a few months ago, so please go easy on me...

I notice some of my range pickup brass in 9mm has a thin ring next to the case head after resizing, but I haven't figured out yet if this may be causing issues with chambering finished rounds in my SP-01 Shadow.

The thin ring shouldn't have anything to do with chambering, as this is just where the carbide ring stops on the upstroke when sizing and starts back down the case on the downstroke. It's really just a shiny spot on the case. It happens on almost all presses (I've noticed it on my Dillon 550, using Dillon dies).

[at_liberty]

I guess my question is: how do you know if a round is failing the barrel test because of a sizing problem and not because of, say, OAL variation?

I think you should add the Lyman guage to your equipment. It will accept a full cartridge without the chamber length constraints of your barrel. Other calibers are available.

Edited July 2, 2010 by at_liberty

[ardo]

Thanks, guys! I think I was over-complicating this issue of mine. I just loaded & fired 300 rounds, using a different bullet. All of my problems are gone. I was still using the Lee FCD, but will try to learn living without it in my next batch. And yes, the Lyman gauge is on order.

Thanks again!

P.S. I was re-reading Hornady die setup instructions and realized that I adjusted the sizing die with the handle at the bottom-most position, NOT before the cam-over, like the instruction says...

[dbxdm9]

All I do about the "Glock Bulge" when reloading my 9mm is lube the cases before I size them. Seems to get the Lee carbide sizing die to roll over the bulge rather than push it up into a ridge. I still get some with a very small ridge (barely noticeable) on one side but never had a mis-feed in my XDm. Die hangs up on some of the cases (and takes excessive pressure on the handle) if I resize without the lube. Right or wrong - works for me. All range brass.

[sierra77mk]

Thanks, guys! I think I was over-complicating this issue of mine. I just loaded & fired 300 rounds, using a different bullet. All of my problems are gone. I was still using the Lee FCD, but will try to learn living without it in my next batch. And yes, the Lyman gauge is on order.

Thanks again!

P.S. I was re-reading Hornady die setup instructions and realized that I adjusted the sizing die with the handle at the bottom-most position, NOT before the cam-over, like the instruction says...

That was my thought. Or certain brass can be thicker/thinner.

A-MERC brass for instance is very thick and all of it, no matter the caliber, goes right in the recycle bucket.

Speer seems to be thinner...

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I use a EGW "U" die or a Lee sizing die for my 40(2 different presses). I then use just standard Dillon dies for the rest. I have never had a problem with Glock brass after I went with this setup. I don't think the Lee FCD is necessary if yu use the sizing die from Lee or EGW. Thanks, Eric

[pjb45]

I started reloading without the FCD and had reliability issues. FTFs happened frequently enough to become an issue. Since the FCD NO FTFs. Call it bad science, voodoo magic anything you want but my reality is the Lee FCD makes my ammo work 100%. Running this on a 1050 makes a lot of sense as it does not cost me any extra time and the cost of the die was well worth it.

[Tul9033]

I have been seeing more and more 9mm MAJOR brass at my local ranges which all run weekly competitions. These cases almost always bulge in the unsupported barrel area. Even though I may only get a few cases per hundred, I went ahead and got the EGW U die which has fixed the problem. I was gauging all of my ammo there for a while to identify the issue and one thing all the failures had in common was this ring just up from the case rim. Major loads have really been a PITA for range pickup brass, but I belive I have resolved the issue.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Tul9033

[ardo]

Thanks for all the info. I have since 'refined' my 9mm setup to size cases properly, by adjusting the sizing die BEFORE cam-over - something I didn't realize I have to do initially. I then loaded and fired about 100 rounds of Glocked 9mm brass without a single failure of any kind. Still using Hornady dies + FCD for crimping.

I will experiment with my .40S&W setup next. So far, I've been decapping the .40 brass on a single stage, then using the FCD to resize it, just like Lee Bulge Buster kit does it except my 'kit' is homemade. I'm going to pick about 100 pieces of glocked brass and put it through my regular routine without using the FCD first, and see what happens.

[at_liberty]

ardo

Thanks for all the info. I have since 'refined' my 9mm setup to size cases properly' date=' by adjusting the sizing die BEFORE cam-over - something I didn't realize I have to do initially. I then loaded and fired about 100 rounds of Glocked 9mm brass without a single failure of any kind. Still using Hornady dies + FCD for crimping.

I will experiment with my .40S&W setup next. So far, I've been decapping the .40 brass on a single stage, then using the FCD to resize it, just like Lee Bulge Buster kit does it except my 'kit' is homemade. I'm going to pick about 100 pieces of glocked brass and put it through my regular routine without using the FCD first, and see what happens.[/quote']

The FCD is not a "sizing" die. It is a post-sizing die. The regular sizing die produces a smaller OD case. Use the regular sizer first. All the FCD does is make sure the round will chamber in anything within the spec for the caliber. Used on a finished round, it also cleans up the case mouth for easy headspacing at the case mouth. I have seen instances over and over where a round that would not quite go into a gauge except head first would dropp in cleanly after another go at the FCD.

Sizing before loading does not mean the case will be the same size after bullet insertion. The post sizing (FCD operation and station provided for it) simply provides assurance that the round will chamber freely. Experience shows that the FCD is clearly a solution to a real problem.

[Odawgp]

I guess my question is: how do you know if a round is failing the barrel test because of a sizing problem and not because of, say, OAL variation?

I think you should add the Lyman guage to your equipment. It will accept a full cartridge without the chamber length constraints of your barrel. Other calibers are available.

yup if the loaded round passes the gauge test but fails a chamber test it is probably the OAL if it were the crimp it probably wouldn't go into the gauge. they are worth every penny

[Mike in CT]

I run the Hornady LNL Set up and my experience with 9mm range brass has been good. I find that most of my case issues come from the seating/crimp station. It took me some time but by checking the cases after each step that helped to eliminate the problem. Now I only gauge about 1 out of 50 rounds.

I am now moving to 40S&W reloading and have concerns over the range brass. I did order an FCD on impulse from ebay (somthing like $10 and a couple bucks shipping) thinking that this would basically be like gauging a case as I would put it in the last position on my press. I am planning on all the other dies being Hornady (bought them before doing all the research).

I will see about the need for a EGW die. One thing I find on my press is that even with lube the resizing stroke requires more effort than I expected.

Can you provide some details about the adjustment of the die at cam over? I will also look to pull out my manual as well.

Mike