The hammer drops, and nothing happens...

[Will B. Droopy]

During the heat of battle in a IPSC/USPSA match, what do you do when you pull the trigger and nothing happens? To some, the answer may appear obvious: immediately rack the slide (or pull the trigger again).

The problem I have with the above actions is that if you just had a squib load go off that you didn't hear, then the next shot could mean the end of your gun (and perhaps a few of your fingers); or perhaps your gun didn't go off because you just had a hang-fire, in which case immediately ejecting the round could be a very bad idea for you and those around you.

The question: Do you do the officially recommended thing and keep the gun pointed down range for 30 seconds (thus effectively losing the match or CoF)? Or do you risk it and rack the slide immediately for a new round?

Any thoughts on this?

-Bill

[NickJ]

Tap, rack, bang.

[GrumpyOne]

If "nothing happens", rack the slide and fire again. After all, nothing either means you didn't chamber a round, or the round has no primer. If the round has a primer, something will happen.

If it's a squib (or if you think it's a squib), when you rack the slide you should try and see the case ejecting. 9 out of 10 times, with a squib, the case will have ejected when it was fired (that seems to be my experience anyway), so it's already too late when you pull the trigger the second time, damage is done. Even a primer, with no powder in the case will generally have enough force to make the case eject.

So, the next possible scenario is a hang fire, which in itself is quite rare. I have never seen one personally, where as squibs I've seen a few.

PS-have you started dropping your mags yet?

[spanky]

Tap rack is programmed into my muscle memory. I'd absolutely never shun such a critical malfunction clearance that could potentially prove fatal when the time comes because of something that might happen while playing a game.

[G-ManBart]

It depends. If I've totally messed up a stage and think I may have run the gun dry I'll immediately go to a reload, then rack the slide. If I'm mid way through a stage and there's no way I've run it dry, I'm simply going to rack the slide. I've had a couple of squibs with factory ammo, and one while shooting a friend's gun and ammo, and I knew it immediately...then it's simply stop and figure out what happened, forget the stage. R,

[Will B. Droopy]

If "nothing happens", rack the slide and fire again. After all, nothing either means you didn't chamber a round, or the round has no primer. If the round has a primer, something will happen.

If it's a squib (or if you think it's a squib), when you rack the slide you should try and see the case ejecting. 9 out of 10 times, with a squib, the case will have ejected when it was fired (that seems to be my experience anyway), so it's already too late when you pull the trigger the second time, damage is done. Even a primer, with no powder in the case will generally have enough force to make the case eject.

So, the next possible scenario is a hang fire, which in itself is quite rare. I have never seen one personally, where as squibs I've seen a few.

PS-have you started dropping your mags yet?

Thanks for the pointers, GrumpyOne! I guess I'll ignore the rare possibility of a hang-fire; and in the case of a squib load I'll depend on the force of the primer against the blocked barrel to cycle the slide, as well as listen for that faint primer "pop" through my electronic ear muffs. (I've had squib loads before, but only in a revolver: It actually sounded very much like the hammer had simply dropped twice within milliseconds of each other, rather than zero times as when the (extremely loud) powder goes off).

Still not dropping my mags; I just can't get myself to do it. I don't think it makes much difference in my case though, since I shoot the course about as fast as molasses flows in Winter anyway.

Thanks Spanky and G-ManBart. Good feedback!

-Bill

Edited June 28, 2010 by Will B. Droopy

[latech15]

Every time that it has happened to me in a round I have immediately known what the problem was. Either ran it dry and forgot to reload or didn't seat my mag correctly and it couldn't get to the first one in the mag.

I know this isn't exactly what you were asking about, but in my <1 year's experience this is what I have personally seen. I know that this does happen sometimes without an immediate and obvious explanation. In that case I like to think I would tap rack bang. Chances are though that I would drop the mag, rack the slide, poo in my pants, click a few more times and then figure it out.

[DWFAN]

Ive had a few squibs, never once has the slide even moved when the primer popped. All in 9mm. I have since adjusted my reloading practices.

[G-ManBart]

Ive had a few squibs, never once has the slide even moved when the primer popped. All in 9mm. I have since adjusted my reloading practices.

I actually saw one (Super in Minor) while taking a class where it was a squib that didn't leave the barrel, but ejected the case...that's the scary kind. R,

[rvb]

I've found my malfunction clearing depends on the situation. I used to think "do it the same every time" was the way to go but over the last couple of years I know that's no longer what I do. For instance, if I've just seated a reload and the round doesn't go off, I'll do the typical tap/rack. If I'm several rounds into a mag, I'll just rack since I have no reason to think the mag released itself. If I have a recurring problem such as a round not fully chambering (as happened at Area 5 this year due to a bad mag), I'll skip the rack and just bump the back of the slide.

At Area 5, I even have on vid on the same stage with the same mag where I both tap/racked (round didn't feed on 1st cycle after a reload, the tap was enough to cause the round to chamber anyway), and then later into the mag I just racked it on a similar jam. On a later stage I just bumped the back of the slide because I recognized it as the same problem...

I think the "always tap rack" is good advice for new shooters or shooters who aren't going to shoot enough to recognize on the fly different sources of malfunctions, but with experience, extra steps become time wasters.

As for the squib, I've never had one (yet!?). Stopped a few shooters with squibs as RO though. but I did have one hangfire with factory ammo several years back at an IDPA match. It went click, I tapped, and was reaching for the slide when it went off. Scared the hell outta me. Luckily the backstop caught it. SO confirmed he saw my finger out of the trigger guard and the hammer was down (although it was a DA P220). I was shaky the rest of the match...

-rvb

[Gregory_k]

if the ro does not stop i do. this sport is not worth it.

[Carmoney]

With modern components, there is (almost) no such thing as a hang-fire anymore.

Rack it and keep runnin'.

[JimmyZip]

The one time that I have had a squib, I felt it as the sights did not rise quite the same, and the case failed to eject all the way. As my mind was thinking that must have been a squib, everyone in my squad was chirping loudly "SQUIB!" I was young at the time, and my neighbor whose reloading equip I eventually bought was loading for me. The gun was taken to the safe area, desquibbed, and I returned to shoot steel for the rest of the morning.

Every other time it has beeen high primers, and my few Wolf primer lessons. Then the ol tap rack bang has been good to go.

JZ

[LPatterson]

The only squib I have had was in a 1911 that ejected the case but the bullet stopped when it hit the rifling. Tried to chamber 2 different rounds before the RO stopped me to check for a squib. Would not let me leave the shooting area until the bullet was removed.

[Will B. Droopy]

For you guys who have had a squib during competition, when the adrenalin is running and your ability to hear and see things -- except for the targets -- is greatly diminished (especially with earmuffs on), and you only have a microsecond to make a decision as to whether the gun was empty, or the primer didn't ignite, or you had a FTF, or you had a very dangerous squib?

One gentleman noticed that the sights didn't rise as far as normal, and I personally noticed (but not during competition, and with my ears on) that there were two distinct clicks (one click the hammer drop, the other the primer) instead of a single BOOM. What I am saying, I guess, is that when you are under the huge pressures of competing, and when you are using hearing protection, just how obvious is it that the cartridge's powder charge has not been ignited, and only the primer has detonated? (Especially, as said here by others above, when the empty ejects -- or almost ejects -- which really would be confusing to the competitive shooter while under such pressure...)

-Bill

Edited July 6, 2010 by Will B. Droopy

[CocoBolo]

I've had a couple, don't drink and reload. Its more about the feel than hearing it. You bust off a round and it feels super whimpy, my first instinct was to look for the hole in the target I just called the shot on, sure enough no hole. I stopped ejected a perfectly good round that was ready to blow the gun up. I have a very large phillps screw driver in the range bag it took it right out.

In this case it was the perfect squip ejected the case feed another round and was ready to have the hammer dropped.

[Carmoney]

Squibs sound completely different than clicks. I don't think they are that easy to confuse.

[DyNo!]

Click - double-strike since I've got a Beretta then TRB.

[Will B. Droopy]

Squibs sound completely different than clicks. I don't think they are that easy to confuse.

Hi Carmoney,

My squib sounded like a double click through my electronic ear muffs. Maybe it was just me and my aging ears; don't know. But as I say, instead of the BOOM I would normally hear, the squib incident sounded to me like this: 1) the click sound of the impacting hammer on the primer; 2) and then a microsecond later another click sound of the exploding primer...

-Bill

[AzYooper]

For you guys who have had a squib during competition, when the adrenalin is running and your ability to hear and see things -- except for the targets -- is greatly diminished (especially with earmuffs on), and you only have a microsecond to make a decision as to whether the gun was empty, or the primer didn't ignite, or you had a FTF, or you had a very dangerous squib?

-Bill

I am no way near as observant as I should be during shooting. I have had 2 separate squibs in competition years ago and I did not notice anything. Luckily my old gun I was using at the time would not let another round chamber all the way with a bullet in the barrel. I tried and tried racking the slide to get the next one in before the RO stopped me mentioned that I might have a squib.

[bbbean]

Hey Will - did you get the prototype of the deluxe tactical custom milspec Bean's Blaster Bag I sent?

If you'll just add a pair of my new squib resistant gloves, you'll find that you can shoot to your heart's content without fear of untimely explosions hampering your afternoon at the range.

,

I'm also working on full body squib and detonation protection, but we're having a few problems with temperature regulation. Fitting the lady's model has been a challenge. Our testers keep complaining of chafing and sunburn.

At any rate, just give us a call at Bean's Blasters, and we'll gladly design a product around your unique needs.

Edited July 6, 2010 by bbbean

[Will B. Droopy]

Hey Will - did you get the prototype of the deluxe tactical custom milspec Bean's Blaster Bag I sent?

If you'll just add a pair of my new squib resistant gloves, you'll find that you can shoot to your heart's content without fear of untimely explosions hampering your afternoon at the range.

,

I'm also working on full body squib and detonation protection, but we're having a few problems with temperature regulation. Fitting the lady's model has been a challenge. Our testers keep complaining of chafing and sunburn.

At any rate, just give us a call at Bean's Blasters, and we'll gladly design a product around your unique needs.

Mr. bbbean,

I'll take a pair of the Bean Blaster^TMSquib Resistant Gloves in a large; and as soon as you get all the kinks worked out of the Full Body Squib and Detonation Protection device, I'll also take one of those in a male size 38L (but only if the price is right). Both look like a sensible solution to a common problem.

Looks like Bean Blaster^TM is on the ball again. Good work.

-Bill

[Will B. Droopy]

PS-have you started dropping your mags yet?

I've just started to give this a lot of thought GrumpyOne, and after I become moderately good at USPSA, and dropping the mags will then actually make a true difference in my score, then I plan on spending the money to buy enough mags to complete the entire day without re-using a single dropped mag. (After all, what's the difference now if it takes me 59 minutes to complete one CoF, but by dropping those mags it speeds my time to 58 minutes* -- I still lose! ). Then I'll clean all 15 or so dropped mags at home -- thoroughly (this should satisfy my annoying OCD tendancies).

I see only two problems to all this though: 1) My wife may kill me for spending $450 on "just" mags; 2) On my full size, all-steel Tanfoglio 9mm Witness, I can't reach the mag release unless I shift my grip, or use my other hand (so I'll still be rather slow with mag changes...)

-Bill

*Kidding about those times

[Flexmoney]

With modern components, there is (almost) no such thing as a hang-fire anymore.

Rack it and keep runnin'.

+1

I haven't seen a hang fire in any competition pistol sport since the turn of the century (and beyond).

[Will B. Droopy]

That really does take a load off my mind! I bet many old farts, such as myself, are still deathly afraid of hang fires, when there is actually no need to be anymore. Heck, every time I got a dud round for the last forty years I would extend the gun out towards the target for 30 seconds, worried that the failure to fire might go off. (Sometimes there wasn't even a round in the chamber due to a failure to feed! )

I'll now tap-rack-bang!

Thanks,

-Bill