Is a barsto P226 .40 to 9mm conversion legal in USPSA

[dockbox]

I have a .40 caliber P226R ST that I have begun to use for USPSA production. Since a P226 comes in 9mm, .40 cal, and .357 sig, is it legal to convert a .40 caliber to 9mm with a barsto conversion?

[Dukerdog]

I think that you can only convert from 40 S&W to 357 sig.

Good luck,

Marc

[tomfturner]

if you search around I think you'll find this asked already. If I remember correctly the short answer is "NO", but I don't remember why.

[bikerburgess]

the answer is no you cannot change caliber with a new barrel and still be legal I also do not believe you can change 357sig to 9mm or 10mm to 40sw either but I cant find the ruling to quote right now but I found it last year when I was thinking about changing the barrel on my G20. in production caliber and cartridge are considered the same thing.

Mike

[twodownzero]

Your gun is only legal in production in the caliber in which it was produced from the factory. Changing calibers is not allowed because it is not an approved modification. All modifications are prohibited in production except the inclusive list provided for in the rules, which does not include converting from one caliber to another.

[Duke Nukem]

226s are made in 9 and 40. If the slide doesn't say 226 40 cal on it its ok to convert.

For example the XDM 40 has it written on the slide so a conversion to 9 wont be legal.

Your gun is only legal in production in the caliber in which it was produced from the factory. Changing calibers is not allowed because it is not an approved modification. All modifications are prohibited in production except the inclusive list provided for in the rules, which does not include converting from one caliber to another.

[Cy Soto]

226s are made in 9 and 40. If the slide doesn't say 226 40 cal on it its ok to convert.

For example the XDM 40 has it written on the slide so a conversion to 9 wont be legal.

Even thought it is not engraved in the frame, the use of a conversion barrel is not allowed in Production.

You would still be able to run your .40S&W pistol with a 9mm conversion barrel in Limited or L-10 Minor.

[HuskySig]

226s are made in 9 and 40. If the slide doesn't say 226 40 cal on it its ok to convert.

For example the XDM 40 has it written on the slide so a conversion to 9 wont be legal.

Even thought it is not engraved in the frame, the use of a conversion barrel is not allowed in Production.

How are you going prove that someone has illegally converted their .40S&W P226 to a 9mm P226? As Duke Nukem wrote, the slides and frames are not marked with caliber related insignias.

[sfinney]

Yeah, but YOU would know.

[Cy Soto]

How are you going prove that someone has illegally converted their .40S&W P226 to a 9mm P226? As Duke Nukem wrote, the slides and frames are not marked with caliber related insignias.

The most evident way to determine if it is a conversion barrel is by comparing the thickness of the barrel's wall. Most RO's will probably don't go through the trouble of checking this but, as sfinney has very well mentioned, it is a matter of honor.

[HuskySig]

Yeah, but YOU would know.

To be perfectly honest with you, I'd have no guilty conscious about swapping barrels. If I had a .40S&W P226 and realized I could save money by shooting 9mm, I'd purchase a factory Sig 9mm barrel. I can spend $140 on a new barrel or I could spend $750 on a new pistol ending up with the same result. I think I'd save the $600 for ammo.

[HuskySig]

How are you going prove that someone has illegally converted their .40S&W P226 to a 9mm P226? As Duke Nukem wrote, the slides and frames are not marked with caliber related insignias.

The most evident way to determine if it is a conversion barrel is by comparing the thickness of the barrel's wall.

What? How does barrel wall thickness relate back to identifying the factory barrel?

Factory Sig P226 barrels all look the same, aside from the caliber stamp on the right hand side. As I posted earlier, there are no markings on a P226 frame or slide that would indicate caliber. Unlike Glock, which stamps model number on the slide. Then you have a definitive identifier of what caliber bullet should be fired from it.

[Cy Soto]

To be perfectly honest with you, I'd have no guilty conscious about swapping barrels.

I am sorry to hear this. In my book, knowing the rules and yet refusing to abide by them is cheating.

What? How does barrel wall thickness relate back to identifying the factory barrel?

What I said was that it helps identify conversion barrels.

[HuskySig]

To be perfectly honest with you, I'd have no guilty conscious about swapping barrels.

I am sorry to hear this. In my book, knowing the rules and yet refusing to abide by them is cheating.

In this case, I call it not throwing money away.

[sfinney]

No one has anything against you saving money shooting 9mm..... just pointing out how they interpret the rules. Regardless of how its marked, or not. But, as you stated, if you can sleep ok at night, do what you want. No one either will notice, or care probably. But if someone did notice, somehow.... at a larger match.... would that be just a bump to Open, or a DQ for unsportsmanlike, I wonder.

[Cy Soto]

would that be just a bump to Open, or a DQ for unsportsmanlike, I wonder.

Rule 10.6.1 explains it quite well:

Competitors will be disqualified from a match for conduct which a Range Officer deems to be unsportsmanlike. Examples of unsportsmanlike conduct include, but are not limited to, cheating, dishonesty, failing to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official, or any behavior likely to bring the sport into disrepute.

________________________________________

Ignorantia juris non excusat

[eerw]

226s are made in 9 and 40. If the slide doesn't say 226 40 cal on it its ok to convert.

For example the XDM 40 has it written on the slide so a conversion to 9 wont be legal.

Even thought it is not engraved in the frame, the use of a conversion barrel is not allowed in Production.

How are you going prove that someone has illegally converted their .40S&W P226 to a 9mm P226? As Duke Nukem wrote, the slides and frames are not marked with caliber related insignias.

It's up to the competitor to prove that the equipment is legal

under Appendix D4>21.4 •After-market slides and barrels – provided they are

the same length, contour, and caliber as original factory

standard.

so by that a caliber conversion is not allowed. and...

The burden of responsibility is on the shooter to ensure that his/her equipment is

compliant with these provisions. If a modification is disputed – either by a Match

Official or a competitor, under 11.1.2 and 11.7 – the competitor may be required to

provide evidence of a specific clause in the rules or published NROI rulings which

specifically authorizes the modification.

While the rules are currently silent on a Match Official’s authority to disassemble a

competitor’s equipment, a competitor may – at any time – be required to prove that the

equipment is compliant with the equipment rules, up to and including the disassembly of

their equipment to verify compliance and proper function (e.g., the proper operation of

factory safety mechanisms).

A competitor who cannot demonstrate that his/her equipment is compliant with these

provisions will be moved to Open Division, under 6.2.5.1

So if a match official had reason to suspect you had a caliber conversion, its up to the competitor to prove that the gun is not.

(breechface width might be a giveaway, if a MD had a couple to measure against)

just saying..

[Cy Soto]

In this case, I call it not throwing money away.

I understand and empathize with your concern; this hobby is quite expensive.

I am not saying that a competitor cannot use a conversion barrel. Like I mentioned before, this setup would be perfectly legal and quite competitive in Limited or L-10 minor, but it wouldn't be a legal modification in Production division.

[HuskySig]

So if a match official had reason to suspect you had a caliber conversion...

For the observant RO, a Barsto barrel is pretty easy to spot. The Barsto is polished versus the blued or Nitron coated factory Sig barrel. The large roll mark along the side that read Barsto is also a dead giveaway.

Now if someone showed up to a match with a .40S&W P226 that had a factory 9mm conversion barrel, what would cause the RO to be suspicious? There are no external clues to hint at the change.

... its up to the competitor to prove that the gun is not.

Guilty until proven innocent. I like it!

[twodownzero]

Guilty until proven innocent. I like it!

Damn right! You want to cheat in our game? That's fine. You either go home (10.6) or you go to open, shooting minor PF with iron sights and no comp, depending on how lucky you are.

[DWFAN]

Now if someone showed up to a match with a .40S&W P226 that had a factory 9mm conversion barrel, what would cause the RO to be suspicious? There are no external clues to hint at the change.

Ive never seen a "Factory" aka SIG branded, 9mm conversion barrel. And a plain factory 9mm barrel will not work in a factory .357sig or .40S&W P226 gun. Been there, done it, tried it. Thats why the aftermarket people make them and call them conversions. The hole in the front of the slide isnt the same on 9mm guns as .40/.357 slides, and the locking block isnt the same.

My EFK firedragon conversion barrel was flawless, but nonetheless, still a caliber change and not USPSA legal for production.

*edited for clarity

Edited June 14, 2010 by DWFAN

[konkapot]

It is a fact that you c-a-n convert a .40 Sig to 9mm. When I shot one in L10 for about half a year I practiced with 9 and shot matches with .40.

There are a lot of drama queens on this forum. A lot of people trying to impress the Internet Community.

I think a big part of it is the general lack of shooting knowledge by some of the people who post here. People who "yesterday" were posing some of the most ignorant questions are now the experts.....based solely on their post count.

This whole "internet" thing has given people with no status in the real world some artificial status, again based solely on their post count.

"Back in the day" we had some real knowledgable people here who could have good discussions and disagreements from time to time. I miss the Erik Warren/T. Dean era of this forum.

FY42385

[Nik Habicht]

Now if someone showed up to a match with a .40S&W P226 that had a factory 9mm conversion barrel, what would cause the RO to be suspicious? There are no external clues to hint at the change.

Sure, you could probably get away with that at a local match -- for a while. At a major, you'd get nabbed at chrono sooner or later. Beyond that now that you've discussed it here, are you sure that you could get away with it for a while where you shoot? Sure you won't have just generated a lot of interest in your gun? Something to think about....

... its up to the competitor to prove that the gun is not.

Guilty until proven innocent. I like it!

Nah, not so much. Just the way the rules are written at the moment....

[HuskySig]

Beyond that now that you've discussed it here, are you sure that you could get away with it for a while where you shoot? Sure you won't have just generated a lot of interest in your gun? Something to think about....

I welcome the scrutinizing as I've got nothing to hide. I've got one .40S&W P229 that I haven't touched in years. Everything else is 9mm from the factory.

I'll be sure to start bringing my papers.

Edited June 14, 2010 by HuskySig

[rjkelso]

L-10 yeah. Limited yeah. Production NO. Da rules is da rules