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Showdown:

World record - Showdown -BJ Norris - 8.11 total - 2.02 avg. - 2007

2003 Steel Challenge

Best time = 9.01 (K.C.)

Top 16 avg. = 10.00

PMC AMMUNITION Showdown will have two 3'x 3' shooting boxes and two runs will be shot from one shooting box and two from the other. The competitor may choose from either box to shoot their fifth and final run. There is NO movement between boxes during this course of fire.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't remember exactly how I shot this one. I got some help from a good shooter though and it was some sort of "circular" movement.

I think it was 3, 4, 1, 2, stop from the left box, and

2, 1, 4, 3, stop from the right box.

That sound plausible?

Thoughts, ideas, comments?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I know this will sound boring, but, after experimenting with this stage forever, I almost always just end up shooting it left to right, as they appear, from each box.

For me, that stage was always one to survive, with just solid, 2.75 - 3.25 runs. If I could do that, I was the winner. And if the first two runs went/felt good from the first box, I'd shoot the third one there right then.

be

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  • 9 years later...
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  • 1 year later...

Since I shoot mainly rimfire and only occasionally centerfire I find that sometimes it depends on where they put the aiming cone for low ready, especially on this stage. One thing I got from BJ last year at the NSSF was, if you don't know the stage well (which none of us do in the NSSF), shoot the first cone you can get to. In fact if you have some space lineup in the box so that your first plate is one you only have a vertical transition to. In Showdown it depends on whether you put one cone in front of each box or if you put one cone down the centerline of the stage. Big difference. In RFRO at Old Bridge I lowered my personal best from 10.20 to 8.61.

If there is a cone in front of each shooting box I shoot the run 2,1,4,3,S from the left and 3,4,1,2,S from the right. If it is a common cone down the centerline of the Stop plate I reverse the order shooting 3,4,1,2,S from the left and 2,1,4,3,S from the right. Notice either way I do it the gun starts with the closest plate vertically to the gun muzzle. Centerfire I shoot it 3,4,1,2,S from the left and 3,4,2,1,S from the right. I shoot better left to right, and KC once said to break the stage down into a 2 plate and a 3 plate sequence. So I want the 3 plate group to be the left to right sequence. In one box that is 1,2,S and in the other it is 2,1,S. Then its just a matter of where you stand and which plate 3 or 4 shot last puts you closer to the plates on the left.

My normal sequence is to first game the stage out shooting to my strengths, then experiment to see if another target sequence can be faster. I have recently changed the sequence on a couple of stages because of that.

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FWIW if they setup Showdown and don't put a cone in front of the two shooting boxes the stage is not setup in compliance with rule 5.2.3. Which now that I read it again I see that the cones I'm using aren't as tall as they should be so I'll be buying some new cones soon.

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Some places, including regional NSSF and club SC may not have enough cones to go around. Heck I was at one match where they had none and just painted a spot on the ground in front of the shooting box.

That's another thing also Zack. If the cone is tall enough you can fudge the 45 degree angle of the ready position (depending on the RO). Back when they were shooting Double Tap in Ruger Rimfire and everyone was trying to get under the 1 second barrier and everyone was using John Allchin's video to game the stage body position I found out I could do a consistent .80-.95 second run if I put my arms straight out in front of me then lowered my wrists so the gun was pointing at the cone. Technically I was observing the letter of the rule but in spirit I was violating it. All I had to do was flip my wrists straight and start shooting. Not any less safe than Johns position that was a 2-handed version of the IDPA arm retention position with the pistol pointed straight out. I generally prefer small cones so everyone gets the idea the barrel has to be pointed closer to the ground to be at 45 degrees. Fudging it 15-20 degrees can drop your first round hit time by as much as .2 seconds or more. That can add up to close to a 1 sec. difference per stage.

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I just read 5.2.3 and my position I mentioned is perfectly legal with the pistol under the current and provisional rules. I think I am going to practice that more and try in in the next SC match at PNTC on 7/4. So as long as the gun is pointed at the cone, your finger is off the trigger, and you are inside the box it is a legal position in rimfire. Interesting. That evens means being on your knees is also legal and that would put your pistol or rifle pointing straight out. Also interesting. Always felt sorry for the tall guys shooting rimfire because they had to point down farther and bring the gun up a greater distance.

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I just read 5.2.3 and my position I mentioned is perfectly legal with the pistol under the current and provisional rules.

That evens means being on your knees is also legal ...

5.2.1 The start position is standing within the box

SCSA is simple and only specifies (in 5.2.3) that:

The competitor while waiting for the start signal, must be pointing/aiming their gun at the flag/sign with the finger off the trigger.

NSSF is more interesting with an alternative.

7.1 Starting Position

7.1.1 Handgun Participant will start with handgun in hand(s) ready to fire

with the safety disengaged, aiming at a designated object (orange cone) 10

feet down range. Alternate start position may be elbows at side with arms

and gun barrel parallel with ground.

7.1.2 Rifle Participant will start with rifle in hand(s) ready to fire with the

safety disengaged, aiming at a designated object (orange cone) 10 feet

down range. Alternate start position may be with stock of rifle touching hip

with rifle barrel parallel with ground.

Edited by Tom E
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i would imagine that for most shooters even if they are used to pointing at the ground and now start 2' off the ground they have so many others things that are not optimum that the extra 18"-20" head start wouldn't be noticable but for those that are already really fast and accurate, starting out 2' higher plus having your finger already inside the trigger guard may allow you to shave close to another .1 sec off your time which would be huge .... going to have to do some serious experimenting now that I know I can have my finger inside the trigger guard prior to the start .... we'll see if it amounts to anything ....

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I usually put the edge of my fingernail on the forward part of the trigger guard in the ready position, rifle or pistol. Finally got the stock I wanted today for my RFRI rifle. Already have my RFPI pistol but somehow misplaced my set of Williams Firesights for that pistol.

Also finished my Mk III Frankenruger open pistol. One or two issues to clean up on it then going to have a shoot off against my longtime custom Buckmark open gun. May the best pistol win. Got a 5 stage SC match on 7/4 AM and an 8 stage one on 7/5 AM at another club. All sandwiched around my monthly Hold'em tourney on Sat. night.

Fixed the issue with the FrankenRuger so now I have 2 rimfire open guns.

Edited by photoracer
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FWIW if they setup Showdown and don't put a cone in front of the two shooting boxes the stage is not setup in compliance with rule 5.2.3. Which now that I read it again I see that the cones I'm using aren't as tall as they should be so I'll be buying some new cones soon.

Zach: we've always setup Showdown & OL like you, with a cone in front of each box .... when I read 5.2.3 it only says to put 1 cone in the center of the array? where did you read that there should be a cone in front of each shooting box?

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FWIW if they setup Showdown and don't put a cone in front of the two shooting boxes the stage is not setup in compliance with rule 5.2.3. Which now that I read it again I see that the cones I'm using aren't as tall as they should be so I'll be buying some new cones soon.

Zach: we've always setup Showdown & OL like you, with a cone in front of each box .... when I read 5.2.3 it only says to put 1 cone in the center of the array? where did you read that there should be a cone in front of each shooting box?

I could be wrong (not the first time) but 5.2.3 calls out outer limits specifically but not showdown. Therefore I setup showdown with one cone in front of each box. That's how it's setup at another club I shoot at here in South Carolina. I spent a few minutes looking at videos on YouTube and it seems clubs run it both ways. I've sent an email to DNROI asking for clarification. I'll let you know what Troy has to say.

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thx, i was about to o the same thing. the rule book is not very clear ... it says " for stages like Outer Limits with multiple shooting boxes a cone should be placed in the center of the stage" since it uses the words " ... stages like Outer Limits" that would seem to imply we should do the same thing for the other stages with multiple boxes, ie Showdown but at Nationals there was a flag in front of each box ...

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thx, i was about to o the same thing. the rule book is not very clear ... it says " for stages like Outer Limits with multiple shooting boxes a cone should be placed in the center of the stage" since it uses the words " ... stages like Outer Limits" that would seem to imply we should do the same thing for the other stages with multiple boxes, ie Showdown but at Nationals there was a flag in front of each box ...

Who cares about the nationals. It's an outlaw match :). Hopefully Troy will respond soon and then we'll all know the right thing to do.

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