Can someone tell me about this gun?

[kcult]

I know it's a Tanfoglio Witness or EAA Witness or, or....I don't know what it's called. It's Dad's gun and he doesn't really know much about it. He traded a guy a mini 14 for it several years ago. Also, it's a 9x21.

He has considered selling it but he's not even sure what he should be asking for it. It came in a steel case, has two mags and 400 rounds of ammo.

I joined the forum because I want to learn more about shooting competitively, but when I saw this section I just had to ask.

The gun:

[GrumpyOne]

Looks alot like mine, but mine are Springfields....You should be able to find out more from Tang's site or EAA's site. How used is it?

[JimmyZip]

First thing, that is one great avatar!

I dont know the gun off hand, but I had to say something about that pic. I will chuckle and cover the screen from my kids every time you post!

[kcult]

Well thanks for nothing Mr. Zip. You know how that makes me feel?

Edited April 27, 2010 by kcult

[bikerburgess]

Looks like a nice old silver team it a small frame open division gun. If you are looking to shoot uspsa you can use this without giving up much to the more expensive guns. If you reload then 9x21 won't be a big problem or you can have it re barreled in 9mm.

Have fun with it

Mike

[Anon]

kcult. It's junk. But I like you, so I will send you $300 and take it off your hands!

[kcult]

Is it even worth that much?

Is this brand rare enough that I probably won't find a 9 x 19 barrel at a small southern gun show? Where is a good place or site to try to find one?

[JoshF]

I'd say contact the Man.. the Myth... the Legend.....

http://www.henningshootsguns.com/

Henning is easy to talk to and knows Tanfoglios VERY well. He can tell you what's available, what to run, etc for that gun I bet. Not sure if he's available this week as he's on his way to a match.

[Skydiver]

What Josh F, said. Specifically, Henning now carries Briley barrels:

http://www.henningshootsguns.com/shop/barrels.html

Take time to try to talk to Henning. He is very knowledgeable and he can hook you up with what you need or want.

[kcult]

Awesome! Thanks for the tips. I'll do anything to avoid buying a Glock.

[tomfturner]

I think you'll find enough parts/accessories/stuff to make that pistol well worthwhile to keep. Just keep cruisin' around. I think a lot of reloading/shooting companies carry parts for those.

[CocoBolo]

Nice old Silver TeaM. Worth 1/2 as much as the SpringField aka P9 but the only thing SpringField did is put their name on it same gun. Will bring somewhere betweek $800-1000 or you could get lucky and get more. You could shoot in Steel Matches and give up nothing, or USPSA you will lack a little on capacity and the comp is nothing to write home about, its designed around the old power factor so loadum hot with lots of gas.

[GrumpyOne]

Looks like a nice old silver team it a small frame open division gun. If you are looking to shoot uspsa you can use this without giving up much to the more expensive guns. If you reload then 9x21 won't be a big problem or you can have it re barreled in 9mm.

Have fun with it

Mike

As far as being re barreled, couldn't you just ream the chamber out and shoot 38 Super or SC through it? It's pretty close as it is, the only difference would be the taper of the 9x21 case. Ream out the chamber to straight wall, change an extractor, shoot 38 super in it. Ream it, don't change the extractor, shoot Super Comp through it.

[shooterbenedetto]

I actually have a 9x21 and shoot 9mm with it! no problem.

just need to get good mags.

Never change to 38 super unless you like to buy expensive brass!

[GrumpyOne]

I actually have a 9x21 and shoot 9mm with it! no problem.

just need to get good mags.

Never change to 38 super unless you like to buy expensive brass!

Benedetto, that is a discussion that has been hashed, re-hashed, fried and burnt. Three to four loadings for a 9mm major, 13-15 for a 38 super major. The only difference is the fact you bend over to pick up your 38 super brass. I buy Starline 38 super for around $140 per thousand (14 cent each), when you reload them 14 times, that drops the price to 1 cent each, very comparable to 9mm. And, add that it's usually easier to get a super to run than a 9mm major....

But, you are right, many 9x21's will run 9mm with no problem.

[kcult]

I actually have a 9x21 and shoot 9mm with it! no problem.

just need to get good mags.

And what is a good mag? Speaking of mags, if this is barreled 9 x 21, are the mags special or are they regular 9mm mags?

Edit: Now help me out with this; If the barrel is for a 9 x 21 and you stick a 9 x 19 in it, how does the round seat? I'm picturing the leading edge of the case bottoming out on the step in the chamber. Also, if the round sinks into the barrel 2mm deeper, how does the extractor grab it or am I just that off base with all this?

Edited April 29, 2010 by kcult

[RIIID]

Being that the gun is a 9x21 it is probably a small frame gun which means it cannot be converted to a 38 super. There is 9x21 brass available new and used if you look around, I've bought several thousand rounds in the last year new for under $100 per thousand. We loaded 9x21 to 175pf+ back in the day with ease. I've got a Silver team similar to one you have and have no plans to rebarrel it to 9mm.

Rich

[shooterbenedetto]

Being that the gun is a 9x21 it is probably a small frame gun which means it cannot be converted to a 38 super. There is 9x21 brass available new and used if you look around, I've bought several thousand rounds in the last year new for under $100 per thousand. We loaded 9x21 to 175pf+ back in the day with ease. I've got a Silver team similar to one you have and have no plans to rebarrel it to 9mm.

Rich

BINGO! your frame is small frame and wont accompany the 38super cases(its to long)

9x21 question about sinkin in the barrel is right..that was my question at first

but when I stuck and fired a 9mm load it went bang! so I shot with it. If you like the

gun that much I would definitely invest in a new barrel in 9mm just to make it right.

Rich(RIID) at Canyon Creek is the gunsmith you are looking for on Eaa. I must say Rich

9x21 brass is kinda rare now but they are avail.

[JimmyZip]

As your rounds are stripped off the mag, they slip under the extractor as the nose of the bullet engages and rides up the feed ramp. Slow cycle a round by hand and you will see what I mean. They don't have to bottom out on the chamber, although that is optimal. I don't know how this works with non-ramped autos, but I've watched it in enough ramped autos to see how it works.

[Jody Waring]

That gun could fetch you a decent dollar if the right person wants it. If you are thinking of getting started in shooting competitively, why not give it a go with that old beauty? It has the competition frame, single action, etc... and in small frame which is sweet as they work 100% with 9 and 9x21. I still have 2 9x21 guns, sure 9mm is cheaper, but I still have a good stock of brass so I dont think much of rebarrelling to 9mm. Anything you want to know or do to that gun, our Tanfoglio guru: Henning Wallgren is the man to talk to. If you want to get started in shooting, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using that gun. I say go for it.

[GrumpyOne]

Being that the gun is a 9x21 it is probably a small frame gun which means it cannot be converted to a 38 super. There is 9x21 brass available new and used if you look around, I've bought several thousand rounds in the last year new for under $100 per thousand. We loaded 9x21 to 175pf+ back in the day with ease. I've got a Silver team similar to one you have and have no plans to rebarrel it to 9mm.

Rich

BINGO! your frame is small frame and wont accompany the 38super cases(its to long)

9x21 question about sinkin in the barrel is right..that was my question at first

but when I stuck and fired a 9mm load it went bang! so I shot with it. If you like the

gun that much I would definitely invest in a new barrel in 9mm just to make it right.

Rich(RIID) at Canyon Creek is the gunsmith you are looking for on Eaa. I must say Rich

9x21 brass is kinda rare now but they are avail.

Why can't the chamber be reamed out to 38 super? Super is only 1.86 mm longer than 9x21. If the mags will hold it, the chamber pressures shouldn't be a problem. STI used to recommend shooting 9x21 in their new 38 supers to break them in. Also, there is 9mm Largo, which is technically a 9x21, but not quite the same as 9x21 Winchester. It is a much lower pressure.

[kcult]

That gun could fetch you a decent dollar if the right person wants it. If you are thinking of getting started in shooting competitively, why not give it a go with that old beauty? It has the competition frame, single action, etc... and in small frame which is sweet as they work 100% with 9 and 9x21. I still have 2 9x21 guns, sure 9mm is cheaper, but I still have a good stock of brass so I dont think much of rebarrelling to 9mm. Anything you want to know or do to that gun, our Tanfoglio guru: Henning Wallgren is the man to talk to. If you want to get started in shooting, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using that gun. I say go for it.

Thanks! I have been "shooting" for over 20 years, but I only just started in matches and have only been twice. The matches aren't sanctioned yet and it is really only for bragging rights with whatever acquaintances show up. I do enjoy it a lot and look forward to getting a little more competitive without going full blown.

Here's the gun I shoot but I want to retire it to the safe and only bring it out for the occasional dust removal:

[GrumpyOne]

Why retire it? That's not why it was made....

[eerw]

Being that the gun is a 9x21 it is probably a small frame gun which means it cannot be converted to a 38 super. There is 9x21 brass available new and used if you look around, I've bought several thousand rounds in the last year new for under $100 per thousand. We loaded 9x21 to 175pf+ back in the day with ease. I've got a Silver team similar to one you have and have no plans to rebarrel it to 9mm.

Rich

BINGO! your frame is small frame and wont accompany the 38super cases(its to long)

9x21 question about sinkin in the barrel is right..that was my question at first

but when I stuck and fired a 9mm load it went bang! so I shot with it. If you like the

gun that much I would definitely invest in a new barrel in 9mm just to make it right.

Rich(RIID) at Canyon Creek is the gunsmith you are looking for on Eaa. I must say Rich

9x21 brass is kinda rare now but they are avail.

Why can't the chamber be reamed out to 38 super? Super is only 1.86 mm longer than 9x21. If the mags will hold it, the chamber pressures shouldn't be a problem. STI used to recommend shooting 9x21 in their new 38 supers to break them in. Also, there is 9mm Largo, which is technically a 9x21, but not quite the same as 9x21 Winchester. It is a much lower pressure.

38 super is too long for the mags and the frame if it is a small frame Tanfoglio.

[kcult]

Why retire it? That's not why it was made....

Don't be so Grumpy.

I will shoot it and I do enjoy shooting it. So does my wife, my son, my boss, my friends, etc. Just after two matches I do want to retire it from competition, not from shooting. I want to be somewhat competitive and I don't like the idea of dropping mags in the sand and shoving them back into this gun, even after taking them apart and cleaning them before the next stage. I would like to be able to drop a mag and only be concerned with popping the next one in, but I don't want to do that with this gun. Maybe I'm just being anal.

Dad gave me the BHP many moons ago as a reward for quitting smoking so the gun means a little more to me than just a nice gun would. I want it to be in great shape when I hand it to my son one day.