Should 9mm major be recognized in Limited 10?

[Micah]

Since it will not create a huge equipment race, nor render existing Limited guns chambered in 40 cal obsolete, how would you feel about allowing 9mm major to qualify for major power factor scoring in Limited 10?

[Jman]

Sure, why not? Can't think of any earth shattering reason not to.

Many of those new 9mm single stacks can handle major 9 with the right barrel?

Yes? No?

Sounds like fun to me.

[Jim Norman]

Slippery Slope.

But IF we were to be 100% sure that this would NEVER migrate to Limited, then I would not have a problem. However, I do not think that we can be 100% sure.

Jim

[wide45]

There is no compelling reason to do so.

Leave well enough alone.

[Micah]

There is no compelling reason to do so.

Leave well enough alone.

What about people who currently only shoot Steel Challenge with custom 9mm guns? Their options are to shoot Limited and Limited 10 minor as it stands right now. By allowing 9mm major in Limited 10, we will have a place for custom built 9mm guns.

[sperman]

I find it hard to belive someone who can afford a custom built 9mm gun for steel challenge wouldn't find a way to build a gun in .40 or .45 if they were serious about the sport.

[sgtis108]

I can't see any reason not too. 10 rounds max either way. Major is major.

Who would it impact negatively? I think it may impact some of the Gunsmiths positively.

[1973]

There is no compelling reason to do so.

Leave well enough alone.

I tend to think the burden of justification should be on those who restrict certain activities rather than placing the burden of justification on allowing the use of 9mm major in limit 10. Matter of persective is all. "Long live individual inititive".

[wide45]

There is no compelling reason to do so.

Leave well enough alone.

What about people who currently only shoot Steel Challenge with custom 9mm guns? Their options are to shoot Limited and Limited 10 minor as it stands right now. By allowing 9mm major in Limited 10, we will have a place for custom built 9mm guns.

Why can't they keep shooting minor?

I think most people who currently only shoot Steel Challenge with custom 9mm guns, do so because they have chosen to not shoot USPSA. Does anyone think there is a significant number of such people who would rework their guns, and loads, and become regular competitors?

I'd really like to see less dinking around with the rules. Stability is a good thing.

Edited April 17, 2010 by wide45

[wide45]

There is no compelling reason to do so.

Leave well enough alone.

I tend to think the burden of justification should be on those who restrict certain activities rather than placing the burden of justification on allowing the use of 9mm major in limit 10. Matter of persective is all. "Long live individual inititive".

The burden of justification is rightly on those who propose a change.

[Nik Habicht]

While I tend to think that L10 isn't Limited --- and thereby dismiss Jim's slippery slope argument --- there's some questions I'd want answered before being fully in favor of the proposal.....

People are thinking about this in terms of Singlestacks. If we permit it, will it be safe in any of the guns that are currently legal in L10? Or will we start to see inexperienced competitors/reloaders blowing up Glock 19s or Sig 228s, or vintage Hi-Powers, or any of the other nonfullsize or older blasters?

How will the change benefit the sport? Will we attract a 1,000 more members to shoot? Will the change benefit 20 existing members who happen to have a tricked out Steel Challenge gun sitting around? Incidentally, wouldn't those tricked Steel Challenge blasters be set up for minor power factor or something close to it? Will anything change about L10? In some parts of the country Single-Stack's having a negative impact on L10 participation, in other parts it's fairly robust....

I tend to favor rules stability -- so if you want the rules changed, you should have a coherent, comprehensive and cohesive argument in favor to persuade us that it's a beneficial idea....

[wide45]

We've discussed 9mm major limited loads. They will be very different from what is used for open division. Heavy bullet/fast powder will be the goal, and this will be breaking new ground. Hazardous ground.

Why is this a good thing?

[Jesse Tischauser]

I voted yes. I would also vote yes for 9mm major in limited. It would give me a reason to build one.

[G-ManBart]

Slippery slope...even though it's a silly position, people will use it to push their agenda.

When we make a rule change I think it needs to (generally) be to clarify something, fix a loophole or attract new shooters in significant numbers. I can't think of how this change would really do any of the above.

[Dan Sierpina]

It's legal now to shoot major 9mm in any firearm you want. Declare your division to be Open!

Edited April 17, 2010 by Dan Sierpina

[Micah]

Jim, I would like to believe that the BOD understands the impact of allowing 9mm major in Limited...and the tons of super pissed former members raging against them.

[Schutzenmeister]

Let's see ... How can I put this?

Nyet ... No ... Nein ... and Forget it.

Everything that currently makes major in Lim, L10, SS can be purchased factory standard at most any gun store. Major 9 does not fall into that category.

I think there's too much danger of blowing up non-custom guns trying to make major with a 9 to allow its introduction into these dividsions.

I would be open to possibly allowing .357 Sig, though. It is a factory produced round clearly capable of making major in a factory standard .357 Sig.

[Merlin Orr]

(sadly) Bender Bender bender.......(Insert shaking head icon)

[Micah]

Merlin,

I understand what you are saying. Do not get me wrong...I am very happy with the current rules of our great sport. I HAVE shot Limited 10 with my 9mm gun in major matches with strong results...I am just trying to get a feel for what everyone else thinks. With the high (low) wages that educators are paid, and the cost of a doctorate program, I never see myself buying new bullets/dies/brass/guns to shoot anything other than 9mm. Shooting minor in state matches is a gas, but at the Area level, it is simply ridiculous. Given the fact that Limited is protected from the equipment race by designating only 40/45 cal to make major, I simply fail to see how such a restriction on a division limited to a maximum of ten rounds per magazine prevents such an equipment race.

Just throwing it out there

[wide45]

Just throwing it back.

So why not allow production to make major, 9mm included?

Edited April 18, 2010 by wide45

[jasmap]

I felt I had to vote no because I "currently" don't see a truly compelling reason to change the rules. Does it hurt me?......No. Does it help me?.....No. I just don't see a real benefit to the sport. Just my opinion....not facts.

[BSeevers]

I think its about time for a new divison

Edited April 18, 2010 by BSeevers

[Skydiver]

"No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow."

[Nik Habicht]

Just throwing it back.

So why not allow production to make major, 9mm included?

How about because Production tests a different skillset, different guns (by specifically excluding 1911s and a few other guns), -- and doesn't punish minor shooters. (Now, if you want to change all scoring in Production to major at a 125 power factor, I'm game....)

I'm far from convinced that permitting 9mm major in L10 is beneficial to the sport. I'm pretty certain that it won't hurt -- that alone's not enough to get me to favor the change; I'd need to see that it would benefit the sport.....

[Nik Habicht]

I felt I had to vote no because I "currently" don't see a truly compelling reason to change the rules. Does it hurt me?......No. Does it help me?.....No. I just don't see a real benefit to the sport. Just my opinion....not facts.

That's how my vote went.....

Currently unconvinced....