Trigger weight and steering

[P229sctohio]

I am using the lightest possible trigger pull weight, under NRA rules, on my S&W 41 for bullseye.

I was wondering if increasing the pull weight slightly would help with steering / steadying the gun as I apply pressure to the trigger, I see this in a small way now and want to know if I am thinking in the right direction.

I am newish and improving so do not want to start down a quick fix route to a short term better score at the cost of long term performance.

[The_Vigilante]

Suggest you join the Bullseye Forum for the answer to your question-here is the link: http://www.lava.net/~perrone/bullseye/. Hopefully someone else on this Forum can answer your question.

Edited March 10, 2010 by The_Vigilante

[Steve J]

I'm a closet bulleye enthusiast. My interest of course is in CMP Service Pistol matches. It feeds my practical fire. But I digress. Brian Zins (ever heard of him? 9-time national champion) says basically the same thing. He uses the final pressure on the trigger prior to breaking the shot to steady the front sight. In traditional bullseye, I think I'd have the trigger on all guns the same.

[Singlestack]

I'm a closet bulleye enthusiast. My interest of course is in CMP Service Pistol matches. It feeds my practical fire. But I digress. Brian Zins (ever heard of him? 9-time national champion) says basically the same thing. He uses the final pressure on the trigger prior to breaking the shot to steady the front sight. In traditional bullseye, I think I'd have the trigger on all guns the same.

hmmm.. Learn something new everyday. I was thinking it would be a bad idea.

[G-ManBart]

I'm a closet bulleye enthusiast. My interest of course is in CMP Service Pistol matches. It feeds my practical fire. But I digress. Brian Zins (ever heard of him? 9-time national champion) says basically the same thing. He uses the final pressure on the trigger prior to breaking the shot to steady the front sight. In traditional bullseye, I think I'd have the trigger on all guns the same.

hmmm.. Learn something new everyday. I was thinking it would be a bad idea.

I'm thinking that's an advanced technique that takes a lot of practice to perfect and maintain. R,

[Singlestack]

I'm a closet bulleye enthusiast. My interest of course is in CMP Service Pistol matches. It feeds my practical fire. But I digress. Brian Zins (ever heard of him? 9-time national champion) says basically the same thing. He uses the final pressure on the trigger prior to breaking the shot to steady the front sight. In traditional bullseye, I think I'd have the trigger on all guns the same.

hmmm.. Learn something new everyday. I was thinking it would be a bad idea.

I'm thinking that's an advanced technique that takes a lot of practice to perfect and maintain. R,

Me too. And there's a difference between "steady" and "steer".

[pjb45]

I think Brian was a Marine, they always do things their way!

[Flexmoney]

I am using the lightest possible trigger pull weight, under NRA rules, on my S&W 41 for bullseye.

I was wondering if increasing the pull weight slightly would help with steering / steadying the gun as I apply pressure to the trigger, I see this in a small way now and want to know if I am thinking in the right direction.

I am newish and improving so do not want to start down a quick fix route to a short term better score at the cost of long term performance.

This is out of my realm, and probably out of the norm for all but a few of the posters here (I think we do have a good handful of accuracy based shooters that might chime in).

I think what you are talking about is a far advanced technique.

I am confident is saying that, as a stated "newish" B.E. shooter, you don't have the hold nor the trigger finger control to even begin to start making this a consideration.

I would think you would be far better served by working on minimizing your wobble, and getting a clean press of the trigger, straight to the rear...expressly without steering the gun at all.

What most want is as light as a trigger as possible, in relation to the weight of the gun. That way, when they press the trigger poorly, it doesn't push/pull the gun off target as much.

When you say your are "seeing this in a small way now"... are you seeing this in your sights or are you seeing it on the hits on paper from where you have pushed/pulled the shot?

[Steve J]

I'm a closet bulleye enthusiast. My interest of course is in CMP Service Pistol matches. It feeds my practical fire. But I digress. Brian Zins (ever heard of him? 9-time national champion) says basically the same thing. He uses the final pressure on the trigger prior to breaking the shot to steady the front sight. In traditional bullseye, I think I'd have the trigger on all guns the same.

hmmm.. Learn something new everyday. I was thinking it would be a bad idea.

I'm thinking that's an advanced technique that takes a lot of practice to perfect and maintain. R,

Me too. And there's a difference between "steady" and "steer".

I can feel it when I do extended 25-yard slowfire routines SHO and WHO - bullseye essentially.

[Steve J]

I think Brian was a Marine, they always do things their way!

He was a Marine when he was competing. I can't put my finger on the issue, but there was an article in the NRA Clubs' magazine Shooting Sports USA after win number 8 or 9 (recently) where he talks about his technique.

[mgood]

I don't know about pistol bulls eye.

I shoot NRA small bore (.22) rifle silhouette. (And I do a lot better than I do at USPSA pistol. I'm more a precision guy than a speed guy.)

Some of those guys have such light triggers that when I try their rifles, the shot is gone before I realize I've made contact with the trigger. I don't like that.

My trigger is about 8 or 9 ounces (weighed on several different scales that never agree exactly). Light, but not so light that I don't know I'm on it.

Edited March 10, 2010 by mgood

[benos]

My feeling is that also that would be a very advanced technique.

I did a lot of .22 Bullseye shooting when cross traiing for the Masters, with a Model 41. With just a light, clean, crisp trigger I did some pretty good shooting.

What is the .22 minimum trigger pull weight for NRA Bullseye?

be

[Steve J]

Not less than 2.0# for .22

Not less than 2.5# for centerfire pistols and revolvers.

Not less than 3.5# for .45 caliber pistols.

Not less than 4.0# for Service Pistol matches.

In deliberate one-handed slow fire, a 3-3.5# trigger feels very heavy to me and I can settle the sights very well with what feels like full pressure on the trigger. I think Zin's term was "settle the dot", as they all use optics in NRA "3-gun" bullseye.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Steve J

[benos]

Thanks.

I think my .22 trigger is about 1 lb. It shoots itself.

be

[benos]

... I was wondering if increasing the pull weight slightly would help with steering / steadying the gun as I apply pressure to the trigger...

The way some of us thought about accomplishing a similar task, "when the sights are right, stand on the trigger."

be

[38supPat]

I've noticed that when the gun is wobbling, which is pronounced with optics, you can become too hesitant to pull the trigger waiting for it to be 'steady'. You have to be able to go aheady and press through the trigger when the sights are aligned and in the wobble zone instead of waiting for something better. The trick is knowing the acceptable wobble for the type of shooting you are doing.

[Flyin40]

Hmmmmmm............First reaction prior to reading was you want to separate your trigger finger from everything else. But I can see how this could help. I would put some thoughts out there but I'll let the experienced bullseye guys do that.

To be able to do this would be quite an accomplishment. I can't imagine the amount of time that would be required standing behind those sights to be able to do this.

Flyin

[JWBooth]

It really doesn't matter what the trigger pull is, as long as it fits into your techique to control the trigger. The army, and I suppose the Marine method of shooting the slow fire stage(at 50yds) is: Put the sights at the top of the paper target. Align the sights, making sure they are as perfect as you can get them. Take up 1/2 to 3/4 of the weight of the trigger pull. If you misque the round goes over the target, and start again. Now, bring the gun, and sights down through the target to your center/ 6 o'clock hold without messing up your sight alignment. At this point (center/ 6o'cl) you have 2to 8 second (depending on experience/ muscle tone) to take up the remaining trigger weight. So, how you can control, or feel good about a trigger weight, is what it should be. Experiment,for now, and your preference probably will change.

JWBooth

#685 Distinguished master (bullseye)

[Magnumite]

I am not sure about Zins' trigger set up, but typically this type of shooting is used with a

roll trigger setup.

[kevin c]

What's a "roll trigger", please?

[Steve J]

A roll trigger is a single action trigger job done, where during slow fire, you can feel the sear slip off of the hammer hooks so you can guage when it will release. That's as opposed to the crisp, glass rod breaking trigger job.

[Steve J]

This looks pretty good. Clean Break or Roll

[kevin c]

Ah, thank you. Shoulda remembered that - been shooting Production too long.

Man, I'll never get into the 1911 Single Stack Elitist Club now...

[Steve J]

Remember, Kevin. We're talking 50-yard bullseye shooting. Those cats live in a very different Zen garden than we do.