M&P >Para's LDA DPA

[usmc1974]

Why are guys shooting guns like Glock,M&P or CZ in production over Para's LDA or PDA's in 9mm Para has a very good trigger nice sights the feel of a 1911.

Edited February 24, 2010 by usmc1974

[cyclone336]

Why are guys shooting guns like Glock,M&P or CZ in production over Para's LDA or PDA's in 9mm Para has a very good trigger nice sights the feel of a 1911.

I can only speak for myself, but I can name four reasons off hand:

1. Price of the gun and magazines. I know this quickly becomes eclipsed by the expenditure on ammo, but that doesn't make it easier to justify to myself at this point.

2. I have never seen a double stack LDA in 9mm at a store. Perhaps if there were more of them around I could have compared and contrasted them to the numerous Glocks, M&Ps, and CZs that I was handling prior to my purchase.

3. Plastic guns are generally easier to tinker with if you are not a gunsmith.

4. I have never owned a 1911, so a gun having the same feel of a 1911 is of no particular advantage to me.

I don't know if I made the right choice in the long run, but I am not married to my M&P either. However, I know that I am no where near being able to out shoot it, so, as Flex would say, perhaps it is more of a matter of pick one and practice.

[usmc1974]

Why are guys shooting guns like Glock,M&P or CZ in production over Para's LDA or PDA's in 9mm Para has a very good trigger nice sights the feel of a 1911.

I can only speak for myself, but I can name four reasons off hand:

1. Price of the gun and magazines. I know this quickly becomes eclipsed by the expenditure on ammo, but that doesn't make it easier to justify to myself at this point.

2. I have never seen a double stack LDA in 9mm at a store. Perhaps if there were more of them around I could have compared and contrasted them to the numerous Glocks, M&Ps, and CZs that I was handling prior to my purchase.

3. Plastic guns are generally easier to tinker with if you are not a gunsmith.

4. I have never owned a 1911, so a gun having the same feel of a 1911 is of no particular advantage to me.

I don't know if I made the right choice in the long run, but I am not married to my M&P either. However, I know that I am no where near being able to out shoot it, so, as Flex would say, perhaps it is more of a matter of pick one and practice.

Not to sound condescending but, have you been to a gunshow.

Edited February 24, 2010 by usmc1974

[cyclone336]

Not to sound condescending but, have you been to a gunshow.

Yes I have. It is possible that I have seen one there, but it is also very likely that I have not. Perhaps I am going to the wrong kinds of shows, but there normally aren't a ton of Production legal handguns at the shows in WI. Plus it seems as though dealers up their prices at shows (or at least keep their normal prices), so there is not a whole lot of incentive for me to buy at a show. I would rather just do it at a store.

I did misstate the truth in my original post, though. I saw a used Para Tac-Five at a gun store once, but it was $800 and is not approved for Production.

Perhaps I should have lead with this reasoning: I have shot two Paras with LDA triggers and I do not favor that system over a Glock or M&P trigger.

[usmc1974]

Rule #1 Never, Never, ever, give a dealer what he is asking, if he wants 7 show 4 come up to maybe 5. Because if he wanted the gun it would not be on the table. I believe a tac four/five is legal in production, it is a n LDA gun.

[JimmyZip]

having shot the LDA trigger numerous times, and the Glock now for a couple of months, I prefer the Glock trigger. The LDA is not a 1911 trigger really at all. I know the pistol itself is the same ergonomics, but the trigger isn't the same as a stock 1911 at all. So when I was looking to get something production legal, I went Glock. For the reasons previously stated, I am not tied to my gunsmith to fit any small parts. barrel, yeah sure, but sights, and other things, not really. that is a nice thing really. You can get two lightly used police trade in Glocks for the price of a new LDA too. (Or gun, ammo and a rig.)

Another thing, after shooting about all but the M&P of the list you mentioned, I think the LDA would be last in feel.

My 20 cents.

JZ

[beastfrog]

Rule #1 Never, Never, ever, give a dealer what he is asking, if he wants 7 show 4 come up to maybe 5. Because if he wanted the gun it would not be on the table.

This does not work everywhere. Try that at a few vendors tables here in VA and you'll be in for a very RUDE awakening.

[Wideload]

Why are guys shooting guns like Glock,M&P or CZ in production over Para's LDA or PDA's in 9mm Para has a very good trigger nice sights the feel of a 1911.

1. It's the platform they started with.

2. Famous shooter xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx is sponsored by this maker and they seem to do ok with it.

3. It was the best gun they could find at the time.

4. You don't need a gunsmith to work on your gun.

5.1911 grip angles do nothing for me.

My reason is #4 & #5. Glocks point better for me than 1911 and I can pretty much do all my maintenance and repairs with a handful of tools and small inventory of parts. Oh and when you shoot in wet, damp conditions, you are not as concerned about getting the gun cleaned up ASAP.

[DougCarden]

Trigger Reset and grip size. The polymer guns have a smaller grip, some have interchangeable back straps, and the trigger reset is shorter on the Polymer guns than with the LDA. I have a custom LDA with a 2.5lb trigger, and My M&P has a faster more postive reset with a 2.5lb trigger than the LDA, and the LDA is more prone to short stroking than the other production guns.......IMHO....LOL

Shoot what you like!

DougC

[Strick]

Are they still making 9mm LDA's?

[bbbean]

Why are guys shooting guns like Glock,M&P or CZ in production over Para's LDA or PDA's in 9mm Para has a very good trigger nice sights the feel of a 1911.

I would consider one if Para made a 9 suitable for production, but the 18.9 is the only LDA I see that I'd consider, and if I was going to pay the $$$ for an 18.9, I'd rather opt for the SA model and use it for a steel gun.

My M&P pro is considerably lighter than the 18.9, is ready to go straight out of the box, and is between $200 and $400 less expensive. The light weight and rail make it a little more attractive for HD/CCW/duty use. If I didn't already have XX11 pattern guns out the wazoo, an M&P would be my choice for a "when things go bump in the night" gun.

Side by side, I'd agree that the LDA has a crisper break, but the M&P's slightly shorter pull makes it quicker. For me personally, it's all I can do to be competitive with a nice SA trigger, so neither of the triggers set me on fire.

There are also quality concerns. I have owned 3 Paras, and 2 of the three required multiple trips to Para and/or my local smith to run reliably. Combined with the $^%$#!! extractor and series 80 designs, I eventually sold two of them, and the third is a backup/loaner gun. No such problems with my Glock, M&P, Springfields, Kahr, Ruger or even Kel-Tec.

All that said, if LDA works for you then why worry about what everyone else is shooting?

[Shibby]

My only reason is out of the box reliability and the trigger itself. 1911 styles can be picky with mags and ammo, which I can handle if it has a great single action trigger.

But if I'm going to by a 1911 with a trigger pull similar to a Glock or M&P, why not just buy the polymer pistol that will run with virtually any mag and any ammo?

[usmc1974]

Thanks for all the replys. I ask because I was thinking of adding a M&P to my collection. It could backup for my Beretta 92. But, I read a lot of posts about them needing trigger work, breaking/needing replacement parts. That you better carry extra parts in your shooting bag. Smith Wesson never made a good auto, great revolvers but only fair to midland autos at best.

Beastfrog, old buddy, I am 53 years old been shooting and going to gun shows for a might now. in any sate at any gun show. If I lay my money down 9 times out of 10 guess what? I walk away with the pistola. But you got to do it with style and patients or it won't.

[TMC]

I bought a P18.9 way back when they first came out ,I think I paid $600 for it and its been in the safe every since. I took it out a month ago to see how it will work for production compared to the Glock. I tried a few drills and I found I can shoot it as fast as a Glock even with the longer trigger pull. The best splits for both guns was around .16 and on a 3 target array at around 7 yards the splits and transitions where right around .20-.22 for both guns with A hits. I've ordered an adjustable rear sight to match a FO front I have and I'm going to give it a try. Good thing I kept my mags from my Para open gun so I don't have to stock up on them. Because of the weight the Para feels like shooting a 22 after the Glock. I'll post how it goes once I get the sights on the gun and put in some range time.

[usmc1974]

I believe a tac four/five is legal in production, it is a n LDA gun.

I could be wrong about this gun after looking at the rules is has a magwell that prohibits it from production.

[usmc1974]

I bought a P18.9 way back when they first came out ,I think I paid $600 for it and its been in the safe every since. I took it out a month ago to see how it will work for production compared to the Glock. I tried a few drills and I found I can shoot it as fast as a Glock even with the longer trigger pull. The best splits for both guns was around .16 and on a 3 target array at around 7 yards the splits and transitions where right around .20-.22 for both guns with A hits. I've ordered an adjustable rear sight to match a FO front I have and I'm going to give it a try. Good thing I kept my mags from my Para open gun so I don't have to stock up on them. Because of the weight the Para feels like shooting a 22 after the Glock. I'll post how it goes once I get the sights on the gun and put in some range time.

I look forward to reading your out come. Thanks

[twodownzero]

Smith Wesson never made a good auto, great revolvers but only fair to midland autos at best.

That all changed with the M&P. I used to think the same thing, but now I'm a convert. The M&P is the best auto pistol S&W has ever made, hands down.

[caspian guy]

The LDA can work ok for production. It is very flat and soft and has a familiar feel for the 1911 crowd.

There are things that can be done to the lda trigger to make it better (I handled one that TJ did for a friend of mine and it was quite good) that mostly consist of polishing and reducing spring weights...

I just never got used to the length of the trigger pull and at the time no beveling of the mag well was allowed which made the reloads a bit clunky for me (since para left them quite square on bottom).

In addition at the time the we tried it the mag capacity ban was in place so getting enough normal mags to shoot was a challenge. While you could get 10 round mags I never liked the design of them and found the baseplate design for the 10 rounders to be fragile. This should not be a problem now.

I still have my doubts about the long term durability of the fire control mechanism (it looks kinda fragile to me but don't have any breakage to point to as evidence).

On the other hand I think that TJ did win the nationals with one at least once?

[usmc1974]

The LDA can work ok for production. It is very flat and soft and has a familiar feel for the 1911 crowd.

There are things that can be done to the lda trigger to make it better (I handled one that TJ did for a friend of mine and it was quite good) that mostly consist of polishing and reducing spring weights...

I just never got used to the length of the trigger pull and at the time no beveling of the mag well was allowed which made the reloads a bit clunky for me (since para left them quite square on bottom).

In addition at the time the we tried it the mag capacity ban was in place so getting enough normal mags to shoot was a challenge. While you could get 10 round mags I never liked the design of them and found the baseplate design for the 10 rounders to be fragile. This should not be a problem now.

I still have my doubts about the long term durability of the fire control mechanism (it looks kinda fragile to me but don't have any breakage to point to as evidence).

On the other hand I think that TJ did win the nationals with one at least once?

Are you refurring to the LDA single stack gun? You wouldn't have that trouble with a hi cap gun. I did try one I thought man this is a very light DAO gun .

[caspian guy]

The LDA can work ok for production. It is very flat and soft and has a familiar feel for the 1911 crowd.

There are things that can be done to the lda trigger to make it better (I handled one that TJ did for a friend of mine and it was quite good) that mostly consist of polishing and reducing spring weights...

I just never got used to the length of the trigger pull and at the time no beveling of the mag well was allowed which made the reloads a bit clunky for me (since para left them quite square on bottom).

In addition at the time the we tried it the mag capacity ban was in place so getting enough normal mags to shoot was a challenge. While you could get 10 round mags I never liked the design of them and found the baseplate design for the 10 rounders to be fragile. This should not be a problem now.

I still have my doubts about the long term durability of the fire control mechanism (it looks kinda fragile to me but don't have any breakage to point to as evidence).

On the other hand I think that TJ did win the nationals with one at least once?

Are you refurring to the LDA single stack gun? You wouldn't have that trouble with a hi cap gun. I did try one I thought man this is a very light DAO gun .

Nope referring to the double stack guns... There are 2 of the pre-external extractor 9mm lda's sitting in the safe now... One a limited model. And the other a base model with upgraded sights and a slicked up trigger.

[GISMap]

I shot an LDA, 16-40 Limited for two years. I like it, but I am confident I can do better with the M&P, so I'm shooting one this year. We'll see how it goes. I was the only person in my club (75 shooters) that shot one full time. The long trigger and poor reset really seemed to hurt me in competition.

As mentioned, LDAs are expensive and receive a lot of bad rap on the internet that hurts sales. Mine is for sale now.

[taco101]

Ever tried Para's customer service? We issued the LDA for the last few years. (mid sized western Sheriff's Office) Mine was the first to break. Draw bar. Took a month to get it back....after I paid to ship it to them. The next two to break were in Para hands for 4 months. Many calls...lots of excuses. The last two that broke were at Para for over 6 months. Every call....that they answered....many went to voicemail...was another reason they could not fix the guns. In 4 years we broke 8 guns(30% or so of our Para's) and had horrendous service.

Screw that. We switched to M&P's.

[GISMap]

How did they break?

[usmc1974]

Thanks for all the info guys. Taco101 how did you break so many? I have a friend that just picked one up we are going out tomorrow and shoot it. For now, I think I will stick with my old Berettta 92 for a production gun. It's been running great for 10 years now haven't had to replace anything but a few recoil springs.