Boomstick303

Not necessarily true for everyone. It can create a situation where the dot does not move in a vertical motion when using it. Can you train with it to make the dot track the way it should? Yes, but many have the dot tracking the way the want to now without reinventing the wheel. Its another item where your result may vary.

@zzt The brass you find on a range has zero to do with the number of 40 caliber guns currently being sold. The amount and type of brass you find in any range is completely subjective and a nonsensical way to define the health of a caliber. More people load 9mm. More people are apt to pick up 9 mm range brass than 40. At all of the ranges I attend there is next to no 40 brass on the ground. And 100x less than the 9 mm brass on the ground at any of those ranges. I think if you took a consensus of this most would see what I see and not what you see in regards to range brass. I do find it funny that you indicate that todays optics are up to Major PF slide ride options when you indicate you have sent multiple optics back for warranty work on minor guns. Your work is an interesting one to live in. Very optic has issues of one sort or another. No one can say if they will handle Major PF slide ride applications. NO ONE. Slide ride optics in mass are a relatively new application. All of the manufacturers are learning on the go. To me it seems they are all learning from their optics shortcomings and fixing them. We as consumers should be happy about that.

Minor optics is what is should be called. But that ship has sailed.

The Titan does come in at a great price point, but the Athena, and Artemis were built to be 9mm where the Titan was built as a 40 gun and converted to 9mm (as I understand it). I think there is something to the performance of a 4.6"-4.7" 9mm guns. I built up a Sig P320 Pro (4.7" barrel) for CO and it clearly outshines any of my 5" P320 variants. Its just different in a better way. To me when it came down to discussions from Atlas, buy the Athena if you have decent grip strength, or buy the Artemis, if you grip strength is not optimal. I went with the Athena, and I am a believer in the return to zero hype of the gun. Of course this will very as mentioned above due to an individuals grip strength and ammo load. I think anyone can get any gun to return to zero or close to zero, but there is a ton of work to get the gun there. They way I explain it is Atlas has done most of the guess work taking the guess work out of the equation and allows one to tweak ammo to get your gun exactly to where you want it. I didn't have to do anything but tweak my ammo a bit and the gun returns amazing. I do want to shoot an Artemis one day to see the difference, but I am more than happy with my Athena. Best gun related purchase to date, and its not even close with any other gun.

Yup!! At least there is a specific division for most of their guns now. Next one will be an Erebus for certain!

That is complete BS. No one is buying 40 guns. No ONE. Primers having nothing to do with the number of 40 guns built and sold. Especially in the commercial market and big box store market. The only people buying 40 caliber guns are USPSA Limited shooters. That's it. I have seen 1 new Limited shooters start shooting Limited in the last four years in our section. Ask any 2011 builder the number of 40 guns compared to any other gun(s) they build. You are living in the past. You are entitled to, but its not changing the demographics of guns sold and shot. And exactly how many different optics have you shot on a slide ride major gun? I do not think anyone with any certainty what optics would last for how long. It seems like most optics are consumables on 9 minor guns to an extent. They all seem to have some sort of problem or another since there is not a consensus on one optic that is better than all of them, or everyone would buy that optic. You make it sound like you have some secret optic that can take any abuse and never fails? If that is the case share it so all of us can go out and buy it.

I believe Max is working on that.

You would be surprised about discussions behind closed doors that do not involve USPSA. Something like this can be a catalyst in the way the clubs view their USPSA affiliation. You do not necessarily need ISPC as an alternative. You can change you match to an outlaw match. Max has created a 1 Gun rule set for PCSL which is an all encompassing rule set clubs could use. To be honest his rule set are much more shooter friendly and removes a lot of the BS. I honestly do not think the majority of Local shooters give a care to what rule set they shoot under. They just want a place to shoot in some sort of dynamic shooting sport. Clubs have options. It will be up to them on what they do with those options.

Not Likely. Plenty of 9mm shooters shooting LO, Limited and Open will keep up with Limited 40 guns with optic cuts. You must be in a great area. We are lucky to get 2-4 real Limited shooters attending any of the 10-12 matches a month in out section. Open only has 1-2 guys that is any real heat. LO will most likely dominate our section along with CO. It will very from place to place. 40 as a whole is dying. You can keep pointing to USPSA participation numbers but that does not tell the real tale of 40 caliber market share in the world. You can keep wishing it wasn't so BUT THOSE ARE FACTS. I will also give you the same answer that kept coming up about SA guns having a minor division of their own or being added to CO. There already is a division for your 40 caliber slide ride SA gun using Major PF. It is called Open. Nothing is stoping anyone from shooting their 40 gun with an optic in Open. In fact I think you have mentioned this yourself as something you have done. So why exactly does LO need Major PF in it?

I couldn't agree more. It will be an interesting division to observe and shoot. I think you will see some shoot minor 40 in there as well.

The majority of you that voted for Major in LO is because you most likely have a 40 for limited you are willing to put a dot on. No one to my knowledge currently makes a 40 with an optic cut on it. This was brought up in the discussions about this topic before. Sales in 40 caliber guns has plummeted. Very few are even offered on the market today. Only people shooting Limited are really shooting 40 anymore. No one is buying those guns. Like it or not 40 is dying. Those are facts. As far as optic surviving as a slide ride option of a 40 I don't think the data is out there to say one way or another. I would imagine if it was a minor load it would be any worse than a 9mm slide ride optic. Optics on slide rides using Major PF I surmise it would create shorter life spans for optics, but like I said I do not think anyone knows for certain. @Bakerjd is correct in that it is time to allow SA guns somewhere to play. The market is becoming robust enough to support such a division. The vast majority of new shooters have no interest in 40 caliber guns (or Iron sites for that matter), but there are tons of 9mm guns DA/SA and SA guns that fit the bill for LO as currently constructed. The USPSA board cannot make everyone happy in this discussion, but I think they got it right in that it affects most of the current shooters in a positive manner and makes a division that is more welcoming for future shooters. The majority of people chirping about allowing major scoring factor in LO is Limited guys that want to modify their current Limited guns.

While Sig is a repeat offender on many platforms in regards to Beta Testing, wasn't everyone beta testing everyone's slide ride optics? None of them are bullet proof.

Buttons will wear out. Why operate them when its not necessary? Replace the battery every year and leave it on. Buttons will last a lot longer.

I doubt its even that much time. When I break drills down I am always amazed what 1-2 tenths makes when it comes to visual patience. A big part of this game is understanding what visual confirmation to use for which target distance. This is going to change over time as a shooter progresses as long as they are putting in the work and are conscious of it. Maybe play with cadence on these arrays and understand what that cadence is for that particular array.

Like I said, its most likely your are moving your eyes when you pull the trigger versus waiting for the sight/dot to lift. Maybe a drill to work on this, is starting the Blake drill but end it on the first shot on the second target, to isolate the issue. make yourself watch the dot lift before transitioning.

It does not sound like you are properly shot calling or shot calling at all. I use to think shot calling is where is seeing where the sights/dot is when I pull the trigger. That is not correct. It were the sights or dot is when the gun actually fires. The gun can move a ton between pulling the trigger and the gun actually firing, especially if someone is mashing the trigger. You indicate "I see the sights twice on the alpha". Does this mean when you see where the sights are when you are aiming, pulling the trigger, or when the gun actually fires? This seems more vision related and understanding what the gun is actually doing when it fires at speed. Another thing to consider is are you actually aiming every time on the clock? I think a lot of people are indexing on targets when they are super close, and not necessarily aiming. I have not shot seriously with Iron sights, so I do not know if this statement is exactly as I perceive it, but what a dot does do in dry fire and live fire tells you exactly where that dot is at all times. You see every wobble, streak, and place that dot goes. I do not think it as refined when using iron sights. Especially when it comes to alignment of the sights when the gun goes off and not just when the trigger is pulled. Dots tell you everything. To me that information seems a little more muddled/muted with iron sights. What I am trying to indicate is this may be easier to diagnose using a dot. Video does help, and might help you zero in on what you are doing wrong. Moving eyes too quick, moving the gun off the target too quick etc.

Only by the Chlorine free stuff the chlorine stuff will pit metal.

Tite Group with coated bullets is going to create more leading and build up more so than most combos. Coated bullets in general with comps are going to create leading and carbon build up quicker than any plated, FMJ powder combinations.

Does it have to be a TSO? Why not a Shadow 2? Cock and safety on for LO. Find a magwell, and a large shielded safety then you have a CO and an LO gun. The DA/SA trigger operated as SA only is more than adequate enough. I have a spare Shadow 2 I might do this to as back LO gun.

Would this be for LO?

They should if that is the case. You cannot understand that by looking at the website. All they would have to do is create the write up that you just did in your post and that would answer all the questions I had. Thanks, it helps a lot.

I did think about that, but I am wondering if the Hybrids are using the same ignition components? I was not able to understand that from their website.

I very rarely use my offset so much so I posted maybe even on this post that I almost do not see the point. Then I thought about it the other day, it is always good to have redundancy. I have also found I have on occasion used the offset just out of habit, when not needed like I use the offset red dot (in combination with an LPVO) on my Open AR15 rig which I use in 2 and 3 Gun matches. So there is that. I imagine its not a necessity, but a luxury. You would be fine without it, but on a rare occasion it might be worth the price if you shoot enough.

Ah so the stainless grip is part of the price increase. I think I would prefer an Aluminum grip for the 9 mm platform.

Yea the charging case is wonky but I have an idea to fix that. If I get those I want to cut a foam insert to hold the ear buds in place.