George Jones

Yes, it is a DQ. It all revolves around the gun being holstered. If it is holstered and the safety if off (with a cocked hammer) it is an unsafe condition subject to DQ under Rule 10.5.11. The hand position is irrelevant. Additional insight can be found in Rule 5.2.7.4 and App A3 (Glossary) by reading the definitions of "Draw", "Gun case/bag",

My first question would be why would you want to?

To which I will add: An individual is either a competitor or a range official at any point in time. Even at a local match, you are one or the other, you can't be both at the same time. You can use the example of a dropped competitor firearm to confirm the concept. How could an RO (timer or scorekeeper) who is also shooting the match ever pick up the dropped gun?

Good answers!

I don't think it has anything to do with being too literal. The RO should look at the shooter's body language to determine if he is indeed ready once in the correct start position. I look for a "settled" condition. Although the wiggling fingers appears a rather minor act, I would view it as not yet settled. If you know the shooter and are aware of his unique twitching, I would have no problem ignoring it in the interest of saving time and not distracting the shooter from his intense pre-beep focus.

For those of you who care and have an open mind...... My philosophy is that the RO should never touch the shooter, touch the gun or touch the shooter's "stuff" except it is in the interest of a significant safety issue. The COF begins with "Make Ready" and does not end until "Range is Clear". In a classifier or standards stage, the individual strings happen during ONE course of fire. However, during the interim between strings (when the timer is not running), there is no problem (and can be beneficial) for the RO to confirm that the stage is safe. If you believe that a previously dropped mag is a safety issue, go ahead and pick it up. But if you do, you have to do it for every shooter. If you leave for one, you leave for all. If a mag was left on the ground during the COF, the shooter has every right to pick it up. Period! It's not his fault that it was there when you allowed it to be on the COF. So the key here is to keep your hands to yourself and be consistent. Looking for "excuses" to apply penalties when your own actions are involved is never a good idea. .02

As with quite a bit of the content of the NROI courses, the CRO arbitrations are all based on real events. My advice: 1. Rely on the rulebook rather than local match events (which may have been handled incorrectly). 2. Don't embarrass yourself by not knowing the correct range commands. Just like the RO seminar, the CRO seminar is only the start of the learning.

My approach was to not push the physical aspects. Young/growing hands. I wanted to avoid potential physical problems and bad habits from using too much gun.. Starter gun was a single-stack Open gun (an old steel gun) shooting minor until his hands got big enough for a full size gun.

Bad rules information is USPSA's version of the virus. It is contagious, going from human to human. The only vaccine is the rulebook. An occasional booster shot is always helpful.

I have tried to explain the various rules at play here. Speculative hyperbole serves no useful purpose. If the rules are inadequate, there is a process to change them. Until that happens, they stand. I will leave you to your group conclusions.

Shoe horn. UGH rules (10.5) deal with scenarios when the gun does not go BANG! (Shooting at close steel is the only exception) ADs fall under 10.4

Regardless of personal opinions, a DQ cannot be applied unless a rule clearly specifies it. 10.4.3 does not apply since the loading was long done. For the scenario described by the OP, the only possible ruling is 8.3.4.1 - anything else is just trying to shoe horn a DQ into some ill-fitting rule. Too many ROs immediately go to the penalty route without even considering if another rule permits it. Did the shooter intend to shoot? I don't know. Was it truly a false start? I don't know. Was it a DQ? Not under our USPSA rules. The shooter having to clean his undies is sometimes the only valid penalty.

Reading the definitions of Loading and Reloading may be helpful.

A shooter's (suspected) intent does not play much of a role in the rules.

Nationals dates changed posted.

A forum is not an acceptable resource for a Range Officer exam. The rulebook is. <waging finger>

The G43X is on the list (look toward the bottom).

Mutual consent.

It's not really a rules issue - it's a technique issue. In the first case, my answer is NO. It's a timer, not a shot counter simply because not all shots might be recorded. FTSA penalties are based upon observation by the RO(s), not by some uncertain shot count display. In the second case, if the timer is inadvertently affected (such as by ejected brass at U&SC), it's a simple mater of either looking at the last spilt time (if displayed by that model) and determining the correct final shot time, or by using the REVIEW function to determine the same thing (being careful not to delete the data in the process). Proper handling of the timer by the RO should avoid those problems.

A new shooter who has invested in a Shadow 2 is most likely coming back. I would let him use my scale so he could determine his own fate.

Before someone I know gets into trouble..... Key words "in component string or stage". It's a single string. Firing 7, then 9 is NOT an Extra Shot penalty. 16 shots are specified. The shooter fired 16. It would take a 17th shot to qualify for that penalty.

I did not get into this to get pettifu...d er, pettifogged. I'm tied up in something else and will not go into the endless rabbit hole of multiple variations of brain damage. You big boys have fun.

Now you're making my head hurt!

I hate to admit it, but I agree. Of course, this is my personal opinion and has no official standing. Sometimes, it can be just as important to find a rule which avoids applying a penalty. George

Bret, Applicable rule?