DKorn

Honestly, for the mag in the holster, I think he either got totally screwed or got off easy. If what he did is a violation (putting a mag into something that is neither a mag pouch nor a holster), then it would also be a violation in Open, which would mean he is shooting for no score. Otherwise, no penalty. I see no way to justify the bump to Open on that one.

So am I allowed to duck underneath walls?

A no shoot isn’t a vision barrier. It’s a target.

Would you say that a no shoot that doesn’t go to 5’9” or higher goes from ground to the top of the target? What about a regular target? Is it now impossible to shoot a mike that goes under a target? How would you score a shot that goes under a target, if you’re going to imply that the target goes from ground to height constructed (or infinity if above 5’9”)?

For what it’s worth, I agree with you more often than you would think. I just enjoy stirring the pot sometimes just to get people thinking about how they interpret the rules.

At a recent major match i attended and worked, two shooters were bumped to Open on a stage involving the unloaded gun and all magazines starting on/under a table. I was only present for one of them, so I’ll try to relay what happened as I was told by other ROs working the match. 1 - Single Stack shooter picked up a magazine from the table and placed it in his holster. I do not know whether he subsequently retrieved and used the magazine or not. He was bumped to Open for violating 5.2.4 because a holster is not a retention device specifically designed to hold a magazine. 2 - Production shooter picked up a magazine from the table and placed it in his front pocket. Shooter did not retrieve the magazine from his pocket and use it at any subsequent point during the stage. He was bumped to Open for violating 5.2.4.1 because the pocket was forward of his hip bones. There was a lot of discussion of these 2 calls amongst the staff later and no clear consensus, so I’m interested in hearing what this community thinks about it. Do you agree with each call? If you were the shooter, would you file for arbitration in either case? If you were the RM or on an arb committee, what would your decision be?

Agree with this ^ Also, take “it only applies to shooting” to its extreme - am I allowed to duck under a wall as a shortcut on a stage? Does this mean any time the stage designer wants to break up a shooting area and force you to go around something that they need to go to the trouble of making it actually go all the way to the ground? On the other hand, if they are solid for all purposes, at what point do we apply penalties (and what penalties would apply)? Am I allowed to have my foot sticking out slightly on the ground below a wall, or is that a foot fault for faulting an imaginary line? What if I drop a magazine and it bounces past a wall? Can I get it back? If not, is it Range Equipment Failure since the (imaginary) wall should’ve stopped my mag from passing through it?

Loaded Chamber Indicator. In the case of the X5 Legion, it’s a small hole that lets you see brass in the chamber, which also results in some residue being ejected upwards and ending up dirtying the optic if you shoot Carry Optics.

I did the same and it worked perfectly. As one of your ROs, I really liked this and hope it becomes the norm as well. I also liked having a match specific staff jersey like we used to do since it gives those of us who haven’t bought are own jerseys stuff we can wear at local matches, unlike the official jersey.

Unfortunately, if both feet are out, it’s automatically per shot under 10.2.1.2.

If you drop a loaded gun not in the course of fire, I’ll just DQ you for 10.5.13 instead of 10.5.3 and avoid the argument at arbitration

Just to clarify - the dropped gun DQ or not doesn’t depend on whether it’s loaded or unloaded, but on whether it’s during the course of fire or not. If it’s between “Make Ready” and “Range Is Clear” and you’re the shooter, it’s a DQ. Otherwise, it isn’t (unless you pick it up yourself).

I guess I phrased that weird - I’ll call stop if I hear or see anything that makes me think it’s a squib. If I don’t see/hear anything, I will not stop the shooter just because they have a malfunction that could be caused by a squib but could also be caused by other problems.

I would say it’s really the same for a PCC as it is for a pistol - any time that you think there could be an unsafe blockage of the barrel, you stop the shooter. If the round sounds the same but the next round won’t go into battery, there are a number of things that could cause this and I personally wouldn’t immediately think squib (since it sounded the same) and wouldn’t stop the shooter... until their 2 minutes is up (5.7.4).

Individual pouches give you more freedom to fine tune the angle and placement of each magazine. Also, many cheaper double pouches don’t let you adjust the tension on each pouch separately, which usually means that one mag is either too tight or too loose if the other is perfect. If you already have the doubles, they’re fine to get you started.

Interesting. That’s not what I would’ve expected - I’ve emailed the RMI local to me to get his thoughts but haven’t heard back yet. I’ll let everyone know what he thinks as well.

So it’s pretty clear to me that we almost all agree that if the scoring RO saw the 2 unpasted holes before the shooter engaged it, and was able to see where those holes are, that you can and should score the target (Charlie-Mike, in this case). I’m still not sure if “I remember that the previous shooter had two alphas on this target” is a good enough rationale to support scoring the target - how is this any different in principle from reviewing the previous shooter’s scoresheet, which is clearly not allowed?

I didn’t mean to criticize the RO. I’ve just seen - and been tempted to do it myself - where the RO stops the shooter, then wants to explain why while the shooter is still standing there holding a loaded firearm, instead of giving the rest of the range commands first. I could definitely see how an argumentative shooter who thinks he knows why you stopped him could start arguing before you’ve even had a chance to say anything beyond the Stop command. At that point, it’s going to be awkward and uncomfortable no matter what.

Under rule 9.1.4, if a target is not correctly pasted between shooters, you aren’t allowed to review previous scoresheets when determining which hits are the correct ones to score and must use the actual target as the basis for the scoring call. At a recent match, we had some questions come up as to what evidence you are allowed to use. Here are a couple of scenarios; I’d like to hear what scoring call you would make in each case as well as your reasoning: In both scenarios, one target was left unpasted after the previous shooter. There are 2 alpha hits, 1 charlie hit, and 1 mike visible in the hard cover. You know that the shooter took exactly 2 shots at the target and there are no chances of a shoot through and no unaccounted for shots that could’ve been wide misses off another target. All holes in the target appear the same and both the current and previous shooter are shooting 9mm. 1 - The scoring RO has been prescoring this target and says that they are 100% sure that they remember that the previous shooter had two alphas. 2 - The scoring RO says that they saw out of their peripheral vision that the target wasn’t pasted as the shooter was moving to that position, and they were able to see that there were two unpasted alphas in the target before the shooter engaged it. You make the call!

What range restrictions do you have to deal with? Are you allowed to shoot birdshot/buckshot/slugs? Is steel allowed and you just currently don’t have any, or not allowed on that range? What about clays (stationary, not thrown)? Are the walls considered backstops that you can shoot into or does everything need to go into the back berm?

This should never happen if the RO does their job correctly. After the shooter breaks the 180 (or commits whatever DQable act): Stop! Unload and show clear. If clear, hammer down and holster. Range is clear. You broke the 180 when... I’m sorry but you are disqualified. Im going to call the RM over to discuss it with you. Discussion about or even simply telling the shooter why you stopped them can and must wait until after the gun is safely unloaded and holstered and the range is cleared. If they want to talk about it beforehand, repeat “Unload and show clear” and if you need to, tell them you’ll talk about it after the range is clear.

Under 10.4.1, the WSB could state that the side walls aren’t a backstop and will be considered an unsafe direction. This would mean that shots fired at the side walls would be a DQ. However, 10.4.1 also goes on to state that a shot fired at a target which then continues on in an unsafe direction is NOT a DQ, but most indoor ranges I’ve been to that want to DQ people for shooting the side walls don’t care whether you were shooting at a target or not. The solution is to design the stages so that there’s no place where you could take a shot that would then hit the side wall, not to try to enforce something not allowed under USPSA rules.

How is this interpreted? In my opinion, if you are the shooter in this scenario and you don’t agree with the score you’re given (you think it’s unclear and want a reshoot) you can appeal up to the RM and that’s it. If you are told you’re going to have to reshoot and you disagree with the ruling and would rather take your original score (maybe you had a blazing fast run that you know you can’t repeat), could you arb that? Obviously, it’s pointless unless your original score was recorded, but if your score was recorded somehow, could you still arb that, and what rule would you use to justify that it should be a reshoot?

It’s even simpler than that. Take a look at the glossary for definitions of “no-shoot” and “target”. They explicitly state that a no shoot is a type of target and that targets refers to both no-shoots and scoring targets.

If you’re able to accurately determine which hits are which, I think you can justify it under 9.1.5.1. If you can’t accurately determine it, I’m not sure what rule would apply. 99% of the time it won’t matter, but I could see how it might be worth knowing in case of an arbitration.