Brian Payne

I put on some 3-gun shoots for my department and other local LEO's. We always have a good turn out and have a great time. We sometimes even learn new things. For some reason these same LEO's refuse to go with me to "real" 3-gun shoots. I try to have courses of fire, rules, range commands, scoring, etc.. that are the same as our actual shoots, but I still can't get my guys to the actual competitions. I really don't know why. I am not saying that this is right, but I do think you will see a lot more LEO's going to the LEO only competition shoots, than you will ever see participate in the "normal" shoots. This includes any normal shoots that have a seperate Law Enforcement Division. For some reason the officer's are just not willing to attend that kind of shoot. They seem to be more comfortable shooting only with other LEO's. This is a real shame because based on the people I have met at the shoots, "shooters" are the best of the best when it comes to groups of people.

The only con I can think of when it comes to a carry comp gun is the muzzle blast and the hearing loss that will follow. I know the compensated Glock in .357 Sig is just plain nasty to be around when fired, even with muffs on. That would still be the least of my fears if I was in a situation that needed a gun in the first place. As for which caliber works best, pure personal choice on that one. I don't have a problem with 9mm, .40, and I really like the .45. If I am defending my life or the life of a family member, the more power the better. Statistics don't mean crap at that point, pure horsepower is what I would look for. As for shooting from the retention position, that is a whole different argument unto itself. I will say that after 28 yrs. in law enforcement, that I have never protected myself with my elbow before, nor have I ever seen anyone actually do what is pictured other than in a training environment. When the real world slaps you upside your head with its reality stick, the lizard brain kicks in and you tend to fend off attackers with your hands controlling the situation. Shove - Shoot drills etc... come to mind. But..... if you did get put into a situation where you had to duck down and protected your head with your elbow, you would still be in a situation that would warrant drastic measures to save your life. Gasses and heat from a carry comp would again be one of the least of my worries. Opinions from an old cop that is still learning so YMMV.

LEO for 28 yrs., Firearms/Defensive Tactics Instructor for over 20 yrs. Tactics are what should be used before the shooting starts. Once the shooting starts, shooting skill is what is needed. USPSA/IDPA/3-gun competitions go a long way to teaching shooting skills under a stressful environment. The "timer" isn't the same as being shot at, but it does cause the stress level to escelate a bit. When it comes to shooting skill the "average" competition shooter holds a commanding lead over the "average" LEO. I will say, in my neck of the woods the word has gotten out about competition shooting as a possible training venue. Some of the departments now have the Officers take a squad, shoot department ammo, using the department firearms, and even pay the entry fee to some of the local shoots. Some of the Officers even get to take the shoot as one of their shifts. Pretty forward thinking in my opinion.

Excellent idea and one that should be explored further. I have both the .308 and the .223. I will stick with the .223 only because I love to pull the trigger a lot . I would be interested to see some times put out by someone running first the .308 shooting one shot on target, then the .223 shooting two shots on target, shooting the same course of fire.

How did you know? Oh that! that is just a strap hanging. God I have had too much coffee, and been trapped in the office far too long.

Does my attire and purple rifle look tactical enough? Or should I change something.

Speaking of green, I forgot to add that the grass is normally always greeen (and always growing) but we had a dry summer. Right now it is covered in snow and ice with -26 degree windchill. Can't wait for the green grass again.

Can't wait to see how this one plays out. It would be great if someone could do some video of a tube feeder against a Saiga shooter overlay (like what was done in the '06 National Multigun video). Can't make it to the shoot so will have to wait for the after action reports.

Shared with my wife, three dogs, five cats, six horses (my Paint Stallion "Tigger" is in the photo) and lots of wildlife like deer, pheasants, turkey, and a new set of Fox pups each spring. The place gives me something to do in my spare time. Now to put a range in one of the horse pastures.

Another Fat Free from Benny

Tim, I agree with you. I just think to have one standardized set of rules is not the right way to go. Example: Last years DPMS Tri-Gun Challenge. In '07 there were 26 HM competitors and 11 Tac Ops Heavy. In '06 I think there were about 23 HM shooters. A small increase for '07, but the ability to have another division using heavy rifle with scope got 11 more shooters going. I just think the MD's should have their own options as to the rules and scoring. If they are too far off base the shooters will let them know by not showing up for the shoot, or not shooting in that division. As for the shooters themselves, if they outfit themselves with the "basic" HM weapons ie: 12ga pump, .308 semi-auto, .45 1911, you can fit into any match with any rules. You may not be set up to be the ultimate gamer but most of the shooters out there aren't really interested in that anyway.

What is the big pissing contest about. Who really cares about whose rules we are following, or whose rules are better or worse, or if there is a Czar of Three Gun Rules. Just pick the weapons that will work in every match (12ga. pump, .308 semi-auto rifle, 1911 .45). You can plug a longer shotgun tube, get bigger .45 or .308 mags, and if you are so inclined you can get different ammo to match the rules of your chosen match. You can even stick a scope on your rifle at some matches if you want. But you don't need to. This "need" to have a certain set of rules is enough to make me puke. RS it seems you are making this a lot bigger than it needs to be. Read the rules ahead of time. If you don't have the weapons or equipment that works perfectly for the match, get what you need or get to shooting a different match. There is enough of them out there. All this equipment whining does not belong here. He-Man shooters aren't suppose to be whiners, they are suppose to be.....well......HE-MEN! The more rules stuck in a sport, the less enjoyable it becomes.

'06 Tri-gun Challenge shooting in He-Man/Heavy Metal division. Long 30+ shotgun course of fire that ran in a straight line left to right or right to left. Still very new to this competition shooting thing so was just really having fun at this match. The course of fire involved hitting stationary clays, clays thrown by pepper popper activators, and numerous falling steel targets. None of the shots were very difficult but there was a lot of reloading. Shot the stage without missing any of the targets or fumbling any of the reloads, but it seemed to me that I had shot if really slow. Was congratulated right after the stage by numerous shooters who said it was a nice run. Found out later I scored 99.+ something percent of Pat Kelley who is a He-Man/Heavy Metal division god! (at least in my humble opinion). I am guessing Mr. Kelley had a bad run on that stage, but it still made me feel pretty good. You at least get the feeling that you have a competitor hidden in you somewhere. The challenge is to let that competitor our on a consistent basis.

Ed K. I don't know --- that is just --- WRONG!

My wife and I go to the RM3G shoot in Raton NM. We take a motor home just so we can take our time, go the road less traveled, and see the different scenery. Leave a couple of days early and slow things down a little in life. Makes for a great vacation. Life gets so busy sometimes, it is nice to slow it down and learn how to be human again. Stopped to help a stranger change a flat tire for the first time in years. Felt good.

Nice article. A very scary election this year to be sure.

I was so pleased to actually "see the sights lift" at my last match. The front sight was much easier to see lift as the round went off because it was completely backgrounded by the white of the no-shoot I just blasted. Dang I hate that! Just when I think I am starting to get the hang of this stuff, I let something like that happen.

Kind of a unique situation when someone who "is" a competative brand, gives advise as to how to make the competitions equipment run better for their customer.

I just used the Trijicon mount. The TA-11 stays on the weapon all the time anyway. The height is perfect for my face on my rifle stock. YMMV.

Steve, Very nice! Can't wait to see that one in person. Payne

Loved the movie. The final message left you with a lot of thoughts to ponder. The scariest part for me, was thinking that the first 30 minutes of the movie could just as easily take place right here on American soil.

Hold your shotgun with loading port facing up. When you push down the lift gate and slide a shell into the magazine tube you will see a small lever or "catch" click into place directly behind the rim of the shotgun shell. This "catch" holds the shell in the tube (so the shell doesn't pop back out). When you want to unload, just push down the lift gate and stick the tip of your index finger onto the end of this "catch". Push in against spring pressure, and the shell will then be released. Never needs to go into the chamber to be taken from the gun. I say "catch" only because I have no idea what the real name for this is. Just know it works. I am sure someone will jump on board and describe this much better than I just did. Hope you get the idea. As a side note. I always use live ammo when practicing my shotgun reloads. BUT, I only reload in the "man cave". Faces an outside wall, no pets, children are moved away, wife is in other parts of the home and knows what I am doing. No live ammo goes into the chamber. No pointing at bad guys on TV.

Shot/Tested both as possible department duty weapons. Went with the M&P .45. All Officers actually liked the version with the frame mounted safety (like the 1911) but went without that feature because many of my officers don't like to train with the weapons a lot. Just one less thing to think about when the SHTF. Main difference noted between the two weapons: Both shot very well, both were accurate. The XD holds more rounds. The M&P has different backstraps to fit different hand sizes. The M&P had far less perceived recoil. Much more muzzle flip with the XD. The XD tested was the "Tactical" version. All my Officers commented how the .45 recoil was much better than the .40. We were also testing the Glock .45, as well as the same weapons in .40 caliber. The M&P .45 came out on the top. I am in the process of purchasing one for personal use. I am getting the version with frame mounted safety.

If you load left hand. Mark Otto chest carrier with four 4rd carriers, three 6rd carriers on the belt left of center, nine in the gun = 50 rds. Note: Not bad math. Using a 20ga will get you 5 rds. in each 4rd carrier and 7 rds in each 6rd carrier. Held securely.

I buy the 100 round cases from Walmart and have not had any issues. I don't shoot the 20ga so I have less recoil, the recoil doesn't bother me with either shotgun. I shoot it because I can hold more shells in my hand, and load it faster than I can with the 12ga. Also the recoil impulse is "crisp" (term stolen from Gentleman Jim). You are able to get back on target faster, plus the gun is very light and "nimble". Hard to get "nimble" with any 12ga. I do think the pattern of the 20ga is not as forgiving as that of the 12ga. I am starting to experiment with different chokes. At the '07 Multi-gun Nationals I noticed that even with IC choke and 7 1/2 shot, I was shooting a MUCH tighter pattern on the poppers than guys shooting the 12ga with IC choke. Time to take it to the range with proper targets and do some pattern testing I think. I also need to find a Skeet choke and see how that works.