Brian Payne

Or you could just hook yourself up to a Beta-mag, set the sights close to the target, then let'er rip until you hear that funny ping noise . Isn't that what a Bets-mag is for?

As for shotgun, the Nova gets the nod for me. I like that the lift gate stays down making a loading ramp of sorts. Nice to keep it out of your way. Also the bolt unlocks as soon as you pull the trigger. Makes for a nice smooth pump action. The 3 1/2" size loading port gives me lots of room to stuff shells in. I use the DPMS w/18" barrel for a rifle. We have M-14's at my Police Department and I have to say, I really get along with the sights well on that rifle. This one would be a toss up. For handgun I shoot a S&W 1911, but I much prefer the grip size of the double stack weapons, so I put on a set of "Pinnacle" grips. Take my opinions for what they are worth. I kind of suck at this game . I have a lot of fun though. Payne

Just what StealthyBlagga said. Add a few 10 round mags for you 1911 and you will be set for anything. Some rules allow for 10 rounds max in handgun, others only allow you to have 8 round max. Some of the shoots may allow optics and semi-auto shotgun but I think they get scored seperate. I could be wrong about that.

The match should be a great one this year. Last year the rules were the same as DPMS Tri-gun. I thought this years were the same. I am hoping they relax the 9 round max in shotgun, and allow starting with max of 9 rounds the gun then anything goes from there. I hate plugging my mag tube . Payne

Good topic of discussion. I went through the same questions when looking for a limited gun. Used would be cheaper, but face the worry of inheriting someone elses problems. New Edge would be nice and you would have about a 98% chance getting a great weapon. Decided to go with a Benny Hill 6" Fat Free. I knew I only wanted to go through this once and I wanted to make sure and get it right the first time. I made the right choice for me. It seems that if you make the wrong choice, you wind up spending more than if you get what you really want from the start. Give a good gunsmith a call and talk to him. You may be surprised at how inexpensive custom can be.

DP40 I shoot my Benny Hill Fat Free mainly in 3-gun. I am looking to get an extra mag or two just as spares. I don't mind if they hold only 19 or 20 rounds. Will these mags work for this, and if so, how much do they go for. I have never really looked into the SPS as I already have four mags. Just looking for spares that work and cost less than what I would pay for tuned mags from elsewhere.

Rich, George, Flexmoney, You guys all make very valid points. I just wanted to voice an opinion from a "Joe Newbie". Living in Minnesota I have all winter to do nothing but dry fire practice and I have been doing that often. Included in this practice is reloading drills with the rifle. It isn't that I can not perform this skill with the handgun, shotgun, or rifle. I just hated to see another rule added to the books for fear the rules may not stop there. I hope to run into you guys at a major shoot someday, I am sure I can learn somethings. I do respect the knowledge of everyone on this board and I have learned a lot. I hope I didn't offend anyone in this discussion. Brian E. Payne

(It probably won't happen because it's easier for folks to just run 100's than just know how to aim. Speed is too large a factor at the club level to ever change peoples' minds. We need to figure out a way to encourage people to learn how to shoot). Well, that comment should get a few fires burning . From my point of view, I shot the long range stages at '06 RM3G w/ my beta just so I could concentrate on getting into good position, and then focus on shooting (and not missing) without having to worry about a reload. The 100 round mag allowed me focus on the one thing that is most important in rifle shooting. You stated it in your post. Getting accurate shots on targets.

rich 2005 multi-gun nationals had a standards stage for rifle requiring mandatory reloads. I just think the rifle division should not be based on mag capacity because THAT IS NOT WHERE THE EMPHASIS SHOULD BE, we should be testing the accuracy ability of the shooter, not the reloading skill. Leave the reloading tests to the standards stages, just the way it is now. Why make something more difficult. Lets just go shoot. Brian E. Payne

Yes we are. See you there.

MikeP You are correct in your assumption about mag capacity. Some matches call for ability to hold a max of 8 rounds in the tube for limited. Some outlaw matches call for shotgun loaded with 9 total rounds (8+1) at the start, then load as many as you want after that. I run a Benelli M1S90 w/26" barrel and a 10 round Nordic Component tube under it. I put a two shot plug in when I need to limit it to a 8 round max. Weapon is a little longer than most people like but have just not gotten around to getting the barrel cut down. As a side note, I had the M2 Tactical before switching to the M1S90. Seemed to have much more recoil to the shoulder w/pistol grip stock, and if I hung on tight I could shut the weapon down on demand. As much as I loved the pistol grip stock for loading weak hand, I am much happier with the straight stock now. Less felt recoil and I have not had a jam with the gun except with real light 7/8 oz. loads. Mine really likes the Federal Value packs at Walmart.

Yes, that is what I am saying. As a 28 yr. LEO I can guarantee the only time I would be reloading my rifle after I had already shot 30 rounds at a hostile target, I would be behind a lot of cover and rethinking my tactics, knowing I screwed up somewhere. (also probably thinking "damn, I wish I had a beta-mag). I think that is the whole point. If we are trying to simulate real world scenarios, then we should have areas where time would stop so everyone could reload, then time starts again because you wouldn't be doing reloads "on the clock" in the real world. As it is, we are playing a game. We already have a lot of rules governing what we can and cannot do. To add another one just seems kind of stupid to me. All you would have to do is set up a course of fire that could be shot freestyle, allowing an area for a reload while moving from one shooting area to another. Those who want to limit themselves to 30 round mags could do their reloads without any great handicap in time vs anyone using a Beta-mag or other Hi-cap. Right? Then those who wish to run the Hi-cap mags could still do so. That way no one could cry foul and want another new rule added to the book. I just don't like the idea of seperating rifle divisions based on how many rounds their mag can hold. That is not where the main emphasis in rifle is in my opinion. My vote is for No New Rules!

I still say the skill to be tested in rifle shooting is the accuracy. We have enough equipment distinction in classes already. Limited - Iron sights Tactical - One optic - you have to choose wisely because you must use it for up close hoser targests and the long range targets. Open - Two optics - one for long range accuracy the other for hoser targets. Seems pretty simple. No need for any new rules. If a course requires a mag change, so be it. Otherwise I am choosing to just concentrate on my acuracy.

Bulm540 I would have to check my info. at home. Can't remember. It is thin. Green works better for my eye than the red fiber optic. When I had it built I just called Benny and told him to build it anyway he wanted. My only request was for the long flat trigger and green fiber optic sight. Came out better than I could have hoped. A real shooter.

I love my 6" Fat Free! I hope the photo works.

Check your magazine spring. May need a new one.

I shoot a M1S90 w/26" barrel and a mag tube that matches the length of the barrel. Will hold 10 +1 (and one on the lifter if needed). I just use a plug to make the tube hold only 8 if the match requires that. I have the tube from Nordic Components and love it. It is nice to just take off the end cap to stick in the plug, or to clean the tube. I haven't found the 26" barrel to be a great handicap. But I must add that I haven't had too many courses for fire that called for close quarter shooting with walls all around. I find the longer barrel really helps me when I have to shoot any flying clays, also feel it points more accurately w/the longer barrel. Probably just in my mind though. Still new to this also, but have not found a need to send it off for cutting down since a lot of people seem to be switching to a 24" barrel anyway. YMMV.

The only way for competition shooting to be a "level playing field" affair is to have the matches supply the following: Handgun, magazines, ammo., holster, and mag pouches. Shotgun, ammo., ammo carriers. Rifle, ammo., magazines, and optics. Then they could only allow shooters that are 5-10 to 6-1 tall, and weigh 170 to 190 pounds. Leave the rules alone. I'm having a blast the way it is right now.

What skills are we trying to test in 3-gun. Shotgun: Reloading obviously. 9 rounds max. to start the stage, then open it up after that? or should it be 9 rounds max. all through the courses of fire? Opens up another can of worms best left for another poll. Handgun: We are testing draws (will we someday need holster rules like IDPA?), reloads, target transitions, and accuracy (will we need rules for what type of iron sights are allowed?). Rifle: We are testing accuracy, and target transitions. If we are testing reloading skills then what are we even allowing 30 round mags for? If we allow the course of fire to call for a mandatory reload, would it be legal for me to drop the mag at the beep and then stick in my beta-mag? or would we need a rule to combat this issue? Setting a rule for a round limit in the magazines would work, just hate the idea of giving up the freedom we have now. Is what we would gain really worth the new rule? I don't like the set magazine length idea only because it would open up a whole new cottage industry for tuning magazines to hold one or two more rounds than the competitors magazine. (nice idea for a new business if the rules change ). I am just not a big fan of more rules I guess. I fear the rules may not stop here. Brian E. Payne

I was told the basics of 3-gun were to shoot the rifle accurately, shoot the handgun quickly, and load the shotgun fast. We allow optics in the TO class and you can choose between a $60.00 Simmons up to optics costing $1200.00 or more. All compete head to head against each other. Now the thought of limiting magazine size to save in cost for new shooters does not seem to add up in my book. People for limiting magazine capacity state that in most courses of fire, there is always time for a reload. That would make a Beta-mag a non-issue. For me, the Beta is used so that I have one less thing to think about in a course of fire. I don't really see it as a great advantage when it comes to reloading, but it does help a newer shooter concentrate on other aspects of the sport (like shooting the rifle accurately). Higher capacity magazine are said to be less reliable. I haven't seen this to be true as of yet, but if that is the case let, let the hi-cap/beta mags stay and let the shooters take their chances. Edited to add that I vote for leaving the mag. capacity issue just as it is.

Looks to be a very flat shooter. Nice. Adjustable gas system w/lightened carrier or stock?

Stockton, Just an example. Before lightening the bolt my Benelli would not reliably handle anything under 3 dram, 1 1/8 oz. loads. Now handles lighter loads without malfunction. My son shoots a Rem. 1100, shot one round ( a light one at that) out of my Benelli and told me to keep it, he didn't want to shoot it anymore. Too much recoil. Now with the bolt lightened the felt recoil is reduced a LOT. Well worth the trouble.

First 3-gun competition I ever attended was at the 2005 DPMS Tri-Gun Challenge. At the awards ceremony a gentleman spoke about a fellow shooter that was in the process of selling all of his equipment to help pay major medical bills. All the shooters in the group gave to the hat and came up with a pretty good amount. I don't remember the exact total. I thought this was amazing. Later found that Brownell's (one of the shoot sponsors) matched this amount in an anonymous donation. Just another good example of the nature of the majority of shooters and sponsors.

I just dremeled the rear notch on my Benelli bolt. Works great. I had the M2 Tactical but traded it for a M1S90. Liked the vent rib barrel much better than the small rifle sights I had on my Tactical. I really like the pistol grip stock, but it did tend to punch me in the face much harder than a straight stock . Really paid for that one on the slug stage at the 2006 RM3G. YMMV. Payne

I use a Benelli w/26" barrel. I would like a 24" but I can't see sp;ending much money just to chop off 2" of barrel. I don't think those extra 2" - 4" of barrel will slow me down that much, and it makes for hitting flying clays a little easier for me. I will just have to practice and try to make the time up in the reloading.