danjordan78

I've looked at overall times for the top shooters. You can infer a little from them, but not the detail I'm looking for on that specific split time. I am going to ask several of the top ones too what their splits are as well. Also going to get as many videos as I can into the ShotMaxx app and check split times. I'm as much interested in the average shooter as the best shooters. Trying to figure out what a reasonable non movement penalty should be for different classes. A C-class shooter should have a longer penalty like 2.5-3.5 seconds per run where as a master class would be closer to 1.5 or so I'm guessing. I don't think that particular split is much different for center fire vs Rimfire as the target to target transition and low ready is where time is saved. I'm in a wheelchair so don't move on my runs. Otherwise I would have a ridiculously long split and it would be almost impossible with rimfire and no holster. On the other hand, I don't like when RMs don't want to give a penalty just because I'm in a wheelchair. It should be fair across the board, so there should be a penalty of some sort. Would like to see it standardized as much as possible. If you look at the results from the World Speed Shooting Championships I won Outer Limits, but that's only because Troy refused to assess me a penalty. Didn't like that... The more data I can compile the better I can come up with reasonable numbers to suggest. Even if they don't standardize it across the board, I would like the data for myself so I can penalize myself and have justification for RMs.

What's your split time from last shot in the first box to first shot in the center box? Include your USPSA/Steel classification or normal total time for the stage if you would. Trying to compile some stats for average movement time by skill level of shooter. Thanks!

Nationals needs to get back associated with USPSA. I know there were/are issues, but I sure hope Foley gets stuff figured out and gets them back involved!!! Everyone bug him and the people in Florida:)

10

Will the plug that comes with the steelmaster work with a standard length guide rod or do I need to go with a full length and a new plug?

Just called Dawson. They said it's not recommended, but if you were going to, put in a full length guide rod and heavier springs. I'm going to try 8-10 lb and see what tunes in good for the load I work up.

Neat idea that they did at the Steel Challenge in November. Big board full of numbers in order. Prior to the award ceremony, they handed out a printed list of all the prizes, each of which had a number. You had a chance to look through the list, decide which numbers you wanted. They awarded prizes in order of finish. When you were called, you picked whatever number off the board you wanted and took it to the window where they gave you the corresponding prize. They would announce what numbers people grabbed or you could watch and mark them off on your list. I loved the idea. Everyone got a chance to see what was on the table (on paper), and you had a good chance of getting something that you wanted/liked and would more likely keep. Kept things moving too as you didn't have to wait for people to walk the tables trying to decide what they wanted.

Load in the house. More convenient, more temperature stable, and way easier. For the floor, if you have carpet, you can go to an office supply store and get a floor mat like they use to let office chairs roll around on carpeted areas. Lead is not an issue for the most part. Tumbling is where you will have the most problem because it makes it airborne. Either do it outside, or do a wet tumble. Only place you will have lead is on tumbled brass. Primers and coated bullets are contained. Just wash your hands after you load and you will be more than sufficiently protected.

No you won't. This stuff is too much fun regardless of how jacked up headquarters is:) Especially steel!

I milled out the rear sight notch to give me more light on either side of my front blade. Looks much closer to my normal iron sights.

Yup. They announced it at the match. Will be at the same range too. The range director was pretty adamant about wanting to keep it there for the foreseeable future.

ISR and OSR need to be addressed in the rule book. Also think they need to re evaluate the peak stage times. Fastest times and both the Nationals and this week at World's were substantially faster than their proposed times. I do agree there should be much more thought put into how the times are broken down. Hopefully this was all just a general idea put out and more thought put into it eventually.

Rimedge.com has one that is easily installed

Slide ride and 8-12 moa. Depends on what you like. Personally I like the bigger dots for steel especially in bright light. You can always turn them down a notch or two if you need. Doesn't matter click or no, personal preference .

As an fyi, they had steel facing the shooter, not parallel to the box/back of the range at WSSC this weekend

Table would be hard to account for shooter height. Would also mean ranges would have to construct eight tables, one for each stage, and store/transport them. A cone/spot on the ground is much easier.

They don't even have results from yesterday posted here at the range

1. Clarification on starting flags for Rimfire in multiple box stages. Some put a flag in front of each box, some one in the middle. 2. Finger position on Rimfire start position. Outside the trigger guard or not. 3. Penalty times for non movement in outer limits. There are enough disabled shooters now, either eliminate the movement, or come up with a concrete system for what the penalty should be. Maybe based off of the new proposed classification system. The lower the classification, the higher the penalty. A GM or M would only need 1-1.5'sec per run, while a D or C would probably be 2 or so. 4. Finalize the new classification system!!!. It will be awesome!!!! That's it for now...

Sorry. Been slacking on this. Will try to compile it all in the next day or two.

If you find it I would love to see. Not too hopeful though the way uspsa has managed it up to this point. Kind of just expecting to show up and see what the plan is.

If we want to figure out the best way to improve, we obviously need to look at the best way to train. I have heard people say the best way to train Steel Challenge is to just set up the stages and shoot them a lot. I can't disagree more. Do USPSA shooters just set up stages and run them constantly thinking it will make them better? No way! They break down each skill, and set up specific drills to address each of those things isolated from everything else. After working on each of the skills, they put them all together into a stage. Draws, transitions, table starts, entering positions, exiting position, long runs, short runs, splits on targets, close targets, far targets, strong hand, weak hand, etc etc etc. Work on the parts and pieces, and the whole will come together. People like Ben Stoegger and Steve Anderson have written several training and dryfire books on exactly this concept. Why then should we not follow this same line of thinking for SC? Good steel shooters are good at all steel shooting, not just the official 8 stages. Why? Because they have the skills necessary to shoot steel stages well. Doesn't matter if they are the official 8, or outlaw, or ISSA, or NSSF/Ruger Rimfire. So what are the skills we need for Steel Challenge/steel shooting? Everyone will tell you it's draws and transitions. Sounds simple right? Not so much... Let's break those two things down and see how we can work on them. Draws: Position of the holster ---Is it adjusted perfectly to fit our hand as it comes down to the gun ---Do we have the proper holster that fits us best Proper grip ---How hard to we hit the backstrap on the way down, or do we sweep the gun out of the holster ---Where and when does our support hand build the grip ---How tight do we grip the gun when presented to the target ---When does our trigger finger get on the trigger Proper presentation of the gun to our eyeline ---Up to the eyeline and out to the target or straight up to the target ---When and how do we acquire the dot or front sight as it comes up to the target ---What are our shoulders and other muscles doing? Rimfire low ready ---How tight to grip ---What to focus on ---Snapping up to the first target To targets straight in front of us To targets to the right ---How do we stand (feet vs hips vs shoulders) ---What is our reference point on each stage To targets to the left ---How do we stand (feet vs hips vs shoulders) ---What is our reference point on each stage To close big targets ---Faster target acquisition and aggressive on the trigger ---Target focus To far away small targets ---Slower acquisition and smoother on the trigger ---Harder front sight focus Transitions: Right to Left ---Small distance ---Large distance ---only 2 targets or multiple targets? Left to Right ---Small distance ---Large distance ---only 2 targets or multiple targets? First shot to second shot ---Easy to practice draw to first shot, but making sure you shoot a quality first shot before moving on to the second target is a skill Alternating directions --- Most SC stages require you to transition back and forth. Close targets to far targets, Far targets to close targets ---change in focus and visual depth perception Speed of transitions ---It's not just about moving the gun faster, but moving the EYES faster!!! Start slow, eyes then sights, eyes then sights, eyes then sights. Then speed it up keeping this pattern. ---metronomes are great for getting used to a faster pace LOTS to work on other than just shooting the stages!!! If all we do is shoot the stages over and over again, we miss the opportunity to develop each of these skills on their own. Sure actually shooting the stages is a great way to supplement your training, but there is so much more to it. With a list like that too, our training doesn't have to be boring, doing the same thing over, and over, and over, day after day. Come up with drills to work on each of these skills and you have your hands full. I dryfire 90% of my training and can work on each and every one of these skills. My live fire training is then able to reinforce those skills and see if they hold up under actual conditions and with the associated recoil. I barely get to shoot the actual stages at all and I'm still set to make GM in RFPO and Master in CFPO after only a year or two of dedicated dry fire practice. I don't even have the option as I live in a place where it's perpetual winter for 8 months of the year and WAY TOO COLD to get outside and train. Almost all of my live fire is indoors thru the winter on a 50' range. Change your training and your times and performance will improve! It works!

Just did a bunch of load development with several different weights of bullets, and several different types of powder for my Steelmaster. Tried the load you mentioned after I saw it on the forums. Decent, but Ramshot Silhouette made for FAR softer shooting loads. But anyways, back to the topic at hand...

Do you think Rimfire ammo availability had something to do with it?. Were you able to get ano from NSSF to sell?

What's your tooth have to do with your trigger finger? I like the idea of trophies/plaques for the winners of the overall or divisions. Memorable and something no one else will get. Random draw for the rest of the competitors is nice since that is a draw to some. I'm a little conflicted on the idea of using match fees for prizes. If you are doing random prizes and everyone has the chance to win something nicer, which was purchased because of their increased fee, then maybe it's ok. To raise fees on everyone, purchase some more guns, then do the prize table based on overall finish screws those people that have no chance of winning. Not ok with that. Will have to think more about the two different prize tables idea. Sort of like the idea of a Pro entry vs. Amateur entry and two different price structures or prize tables. One idea I sort of liked was doing the random dispersal of prizes at registration. That gives everyone the chance to swap and sell during the match so they can more likely get something they want. Also significantly cuts down on the amount of time everyone has to wait around after the match. Hand out class and division awards and send people on their way. Random at the beginning or end, does it make a difference?

I'm going to go and take my chances. Disassemble my mags during transport, and pack the pieces in separate bags. But I really hope that USPSA finds a more permanent solution in a more gun friendly state. Why put so many people in a situation they know full well is not legal. Not very responsible in my opinion. But I'm willing to stick my middle finger up to the commies in that state for this match! I'm going because I want to shoot the Steel Challenge. I'm going for me, no one else. I'm not going to let California take the opportunity away from me either! I can really care less about supporting USPSA until they take SC seriously. I just hope Mike Foley will make some major changes when he gets there regarding it. Hope to see some of you there...