Sin-ster

I find that the indoor range makes me a lot more tense than shooting outside. While I don't flinch, I do still have moments of anticipation-- and they are vastly more common in the stalls than they are shooting into a berm. If you're not doing so already, be sure to double plug. Anything you can do to alleviate tension is a good idea. Remember that you get battered more by the muzzle blast in confined surroundings, so don't hesitate to step outside for a few minutes from time to time. I also do my level best to stay as far away from other shooters as possible while indoors, although this may not be a possibility for you depending on your circumstances. The most effective drill that I've found (for myself when I get really jumpy, and for others who are completely new to shooting) is to fire into a berm/backstop without a target present. Focus on the front post, see it lift and fall back into the notch, and be sure to follow through. Once you run a target out, don't hesitate to go back to this drill if things are going wrong. I also discovered that breaking up the live fire strings with some dry fire seems to settle down flinch in a lot of people, and tends to relax me a bit when I'm having issues with anticipation.

Not virtually-- standing on the planks that make up the edges of the box. But like I said, it's not a common thing to have happen as it takes a pretty small box. In recent memory, with no barricade involved, it's only happened a couple of times-- thanks to sadistic stage designers. Although on the regulation boxes used for some classifiers, I always feel cramped. Never really checked my exact footing-- but I'll remember to do that next time, for reference. It's not really a matter of being tall-- it's the fact that my weight distribution isn't common. My center of gravity is notably higher than most, and the most efficient and comfortable way to adjust for it is to widen my stance. Thanks to spending so much time in my youth at infield positions in baseball, it doesn't slow me down at all, either. But... I'm definitely out of shape. I can feel it in my groin when I go through a match with a lot of movement and very little restriction on how I stand-- especially if there's some low squatting to get through certain ports, along with short movements that call for broad shuffles instead of standard running.

That's what I found was required to keep me from rocking back, unless I wanted to alter my upper body position dramatically which was not conducive to good shooting. If you're of a similar body shape as me, you may need to widen your stance up to achieve this without really being off balance entirely. Fairly tall and skinny with broad shoulders and no backside-- give it a shot. The downside is that you'll have to stand on the fault lines of some super small boxes in order to feel comfortable, but it's pretty rare to encounter that situation.

I'm definitely not "where I need to be" in terms of this skill. But... I wonder whether or not I'll know when I get there. That comes from the fact that I don't consciously register good shots, but consistently call bad ones and make them up on the spot. (Not all of them just yet-- but I think I'm getting there.) That may in fact be the common experience, or just the way my mind works. Never call a good one, but call a bad one with about 85% accuracy-- and almost never mistake a good hit for a bad one. What took me quite a while to learn was just how much sight upset translated to a bad shot at certain distances. I remember well making up several Alphas with other Alphas because I saw the sight move before the shot broke, but didn't realize just how much shift in impact that translated to at my distance to the target. That one just comes with experience, and not so much with practice-- as I don't know anyone who consistently practices missing!

Semi off-topic here, but I need a clarification. Isn't that a REF, provided you're hitting within the main target zone? Or does the "same for all shooters" factor outweigh that? (Which, IMVHO, would just mean an excuse for lazy set up...) I ask because I shot a US popper the other day and hit it about two inches 9 o'clock from center, and it didn't fall. 124 grain 9mm making ~131 PF. (Got a reshoot for stepping on the RO's foot, so it was a non-issue and never got addressed.) Hope this doesn't turn into a hijack-- but I gotta know. My entire 20+ person squad was talking about it, so I'm not exaggerating the circumstances...

Hey, Nick. Although I can't speak to your specific problem, I do have a similar issue myself-- based on what you've described. It's a general discrepancy in grip. You put your index finger on the trigger guard, and I hit the grip with the support hand awkwardly. Just as you describe, in "shadow runs" and even dry fire practice at home, it rarely pops up. But during a match, it happens. What I discovered was that the best way (for me) to correct the issue was to break the drawstroke down again into separate parts, and run the important one dry-- over and over and over again. Some steps... 1) Assume your chosen start position, and make sure you're relaxed to the max. 2) Initiate the timer, with "random start" setting enabled. 3) Hit the pistol with your strong/weapon hand. 4) Bring it up to the point of meeting the support hand-- and FREEEZE. That's right. This is the critical moment for me-- although in your case, it might be during the press out. That's something you'll have to decide for yourself. At any rate, that's the part of the draw you must ingrain into natural tendency. Once you know when that finger will stretch across the trigger guard, work tirelessly to that point to make sure it doesn't happen again. BUT-- be sure to complete a full draw every 10 reps or so, lest you start to get robotic with the "steps" and end up with a jerky motion. Obviously, I'm not imparting anything new to you that hasn't already been suggested. In my experience, focusing in on the exact instance of failure will shorten the learning curve. I can't say that I came up with this concept on my own-- and have to give props to Matt Burkett, who suggests a similar drill for reloads. I also think that taping the index and middle finger together is pure genius.

Good gravy, you had better give us (ME!) an update on this one. I wanna know what you find out!

Extremely interested in the answers you get on this one. Posting so I can keep track. In terms of theoretical physics and chemistry, once fired brass will certainly be easier to run through the press. But the problems you report sound pretty excessive. I've used Hornady One Shot from day one, at the recommendations of several experienced reloaders. However, I didn't bother when I was getting the press set up-- which took quite a few rounds. I found that the brass I ran through the press from the resizing die onward several times was always easier to cycle, and the stuff that only went through once without lube was quite obviously tougher than the stuff that had been treated. In other words-- lube will make a difference, but I'm curious to see if what you're reporting is normal. As a pre-emptive curiosity-- are you using the standard Dillon resizing die, or something else?

+1 for the Redding Competition Seating Die. The micrometer on top is also wonderfully handy for making small adjustments to your OAL. And the universal stem it uses seats my MG 124 JHPs like a champ. I think the Dillon Powder Measure is even more accurate than the credit it's receiving in this thread. AFAIK, very few people will be using a scale that measures smaller than .1 grain-- and most of them will have a .1 SD on top of that. It's impossible to tell under those conditions just how much variation you're looking at on a case-to-case basis. I have thrown 10-20 charges, weighed and averaged them out to determine how much my measure is throwing. There is, after all, quite a bit of adjustment on the measure between tenths of a grain-- at least for N320. What I found was remarkable repeatability, within .1-.2 grains over a 10 charge series of throws! This translates to what my chronograph is telling me. 41 grains in 10 throws = 4.1 grains per case average. 41.6 grains in 10 = 4.16 per throw. And using 25 shot sample groups, my chrony revealed not only an increase in average FPS, but a higher Hi and Lo, and similar (or smaller) SD and ES figures as well. That seems to me to indicate that there's more powder making it into each case-- enough to be measurable in velocity. And you're talking ~10-15 FPS here, consistently. So yeah-- it's a very consistent tool! I'm fortunate enough to live in a very humid climate, so the static electricity has not been a factor as of yet. But the dryer sheet trick gets enough publicity for me to believe in it-- and I do a lot of asking around and reading on the subject of reloading!

I shoot a man-on-man plate match every Friday night, and every bit of help you've received so far is spot on! Several weeks ago, my performance completely went to crap. I went from absolutely killing it to being eliminated without winning a single round. I just couldn't get the plates to fall! I didn't feel like I was trying to go any faster, so I brought a timer in to confirm. Sure enough, my splits and draw had not sped up from when I was destroying the rack easily. At the same time, I wasn't having any of these problems in USPSA matches-- on steel or paper. It turned out to be a combination of factors. First and foremost, for some reason, my trigger press had fallen apart. I painstakingly fixed that across a week of heavy practice and dry fire, and expected a solid performance that Friday. Not so much. Next, I opened up my visual awareness-- which was a difficult process to say the least! The stress of another shooter taking down plates next to you tends to shut your mind off to a relaxed state of perception. I was only catching glimpses of what was going on-- and then misinterpreted what I was seeing. I noticed a few times I had a clear sight picture, but was actually holding between two of the plates. To me, this meant I was too intent on the front sight and not on the actual target index-- akin to "shooting brown" on an IPSC target. Well, it turns out I wasn't seeing much of anything at all! As the weeks passed and I didn't see any improvement, I decided just to pay attention to what I was seeing and nothing else. My vision was erratic, to say the least. Sometimes, it was pure target focus; others, it was fixation on the front sight. Most of the time though, I was (clearly) seeing nothing at all-- focused somewhere in between the post and the plate. Generally speaking, I was NOT seeing what I needed to see. This past Friday, I decided I would actively see everything one step at a time. The first plate during the draw, the front sight clearly after index. Call the shot, follow through completely. See the next plate clearly for the transition, then find the front post clearly again-- sight lift, follow through. Rinse and repeat until the rack was clear. Joy of joys-- I started going 5 plates in 5 shots again. This exaggerated focus had slowed my times down by .5-1 second, but I knew I'd get into the groove and the speed would come back. Sure enough, after 4 or 5 runs, I got back into "the zone" of a few months ago and started putting up times like I had been in the past! All was right in the world. The main point is that you've got to figure out just what it takes for YOU as a shooter to be able to sweep the rack in one pass. Get your trigger press sorted out first-- it eliminates any type of guess work. Whatever problems you're having after that will be visual. Force yourself to slow down and get the hits-- and pay specific attention to what you're seeing. You may find yourself speeding up naturally, until you hit the failure point. You may very well have to force yourself to reach this breaking point. At any rate, it's up to you to find that groove and figure out how to stay in it at all times. Good luck, and stick with it. The plates are a blast, and it sounds like the extra stuff you guys do after the buzzer is pretty fun as well. I've gotten a TON of drawstroke practice out of our Friday match, and you'll be getting some valuable table start repetitions yourself.

Here's a resource I found very handy. From a CZ forum, no less! COAL and Load Development

Just as an easy-to-find note, I edited the crap out of that first post after drawing out the problem on paper. It should all be accurate now!

Keep in mind, unless you are moving the dot around during the trigger press, your grip (or any other factor) doesn't matter as to where the round will strike. If the sights are aligned when the shot breaks, it's going to hit where you're aiming. That little tid bit has helped me out dozens of times-- not only during sight ins, but when I developed a glitch as well. If you aren't calling misses/movement based on the dot's behavior, it's not the shooter-- it's the equipment. (Assuming of course you call your shots in the first place.) EDIT to add-- This may or may not be as true for a dot as it is for irons. It all depends on the parallax, although I assume like most modern RDS, it'd take a SERIOUS grip issue for this to play a factor! As to your vertical spread problem/question: The issue with any kind of optic (especially on a pistol) is the height over the bore. At the point where you actually shoot POA/POI, the trajectory of the round is actually crossing the dot for the first time. Any closer, and you'll be hitting low. At contact shot distance, it will be precisely as low as the height difference between the dot itself and the center of your bore. What this means is that the closer you zero that optic, the higher your shot will be (when we're talking about standard pistol ranges) as the target moves further and further away. Without a ballistic chart handy for your particular load, it's hard to give you an idea of what you're going to be dealing with. The point is that the further away you can zero, the less dramatic of a shift in POA/POI you'll have to deal with-- as the most it could possibly be is the distance from your dot to your center boreline. And that shrinks with every inch the projectile travels. (Note that there are variations when you're dealing with rifles, thanks to the enhanced engagement ranges. I'm just keeping things simple and focused here.) Most folks I know who shoot a dot zero it at 25 yards. I've heard of several more who choose 50. As I don't shoot an Open gun, I can't really comment on optimals-- but in terms of a rifle, it really depends on your ammo and equipment. IMO, it's much easier to have to hold a touch high at very close (but tight) targets than it is to hold pretty low at distant, small ones. But that's all about what you prefer, how good you are at using the edges of the dot for sighting instead of the center, etc. Pertaining to the right-to-left shift: I'm not very familiar with 90 degree mounts and their behavior, but there's only two logical reasons why your reported problems could arise. My first thought was that your optic or mount wasn't holding zero. However, the consistency of your experience-- center at 10 and right at 25; then center at 25 and left at 10 --makes this highly unlikely. It does however reinforce my second theory. The optic is probably mounted at an angle, instead of perfectly aligned with the top of the dust cover. This creates a similar circumstance of crossing the path of the bullet with the line of the dot, and could account for left-right shifts at different distances. If your projectile followed a perfectly straight flight path out of the barrel, it would be a non-issue, but that doesn't seem to be the case. (Actually, on second thought-- it would still be a problem, but not nearly as pronounced.) EDIT-- Scratched the whole boresight part. It should indeed work! The two dots will align at one distance, but not at any others! What you can also do is zero the dot at 3 yards, then run the target back to 5, 7, 10, 12, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40 and 50 and see if your group continues to shift away from center. (Ignore vertical spread, and use hold over if you must to keep the rounds on paper.) If it goes wider and wider with each increase, you've got the problem figured out! Steps I'd take: 1) Ensure I'm not the problem, via solid groups, calling the shot off the dot, and superb follow through. Or just use a Ransom Rest. 2) Visually inspect the angles of the optic on the mount, and the mount on the pistol. You may be able to see it with the naked eye! 3) Use a boresight, and perform the 3 yard zero test detailed above. 4) Correct the left-right spread issue. 5) Experiment with how the gun prints vertically when zeroed at different distances, and make my choice. 6) Shoot a lot and learn how much hold over is necessary at the ranges well inside and well beyond your zero (if applicable).

Very, very big of you in my book-- both the self-DQ and sticking around to help and cook. There are several folks I shoot with regularly that I don't mind seeing "taking it easy" during the reset. They do put in work from time to time, so it's not like they're total lumps. But the older, out of shape shooters don't bother me at all when they take a break for a few rounds. We frequently shoot in 90+ degree heat and 90%+ humidity, so avoiding complications IMO saves more time than having them slog around and paste a couple of targets that I can deal with personally in half the time, at far less risk. I've had to soak up some shade and suck down some water a few times myself, on the particularly bad days. Even working the clipboard for a large squad can take it out of you with the sun constantly hammering down. So long as folks put forth an acceptable amount of effort (relative concept, I know), it doesn't bother me. Now, the truly lazy folks definitely get my blood up-- especially if they have the audacity to call out other members of the squad for not helping out. That goes above and beyond the d-bag level.

Some of the best Limited shooters I know run G35s. In fact, the two that have taught me the most (both Master Class) duke it out consistently with their mirror image Glocks. It may not be your cup of tea, but don't count them out as an option-- especially if you're just getting started. At the very least, if you decide to go the 2011 route, the Glock can and will live forever as your backup.

1) "Tight roping" on the edge of a flower bed that's elevated 2-3 feet off the side walk, with my gloved hands shoved tightly into my pockets to avoid the cold. I believe I was about 10, and despite the narrow surface, decided it was a good idea to do some side stepping and tip toeing. Missed a step at the end, pitched forward and couldn't get my hands out in time to catch myself. Landed flush on my chin with most of my weight. I managed to keep all of my teeth and didn't split my chin enough for stitches, but I nearly bit my tongue in two. 2) Lighting a sparkler for someone else. This happend this past 4th of July. Full of beer and pig, I managed to avoid the inevitable firework battles (thanks to past experiences), and was hovering at the edge of the crowd. A gorgeous 20-something with a sparkler was searching for a light. As I started to strike it, she had the sparkler tipped down-- so I grabbed her wrist and made sure it was angled up and away from my hand. Of course the instant it lit up, she jerked away and pointed the thing directly at my thumb-- at about an inch distance. Mostly second, but a spot of 3rd degree burn-- through the quick. And just in time for a cruise! I looked great with it bandaged the whole time. 3) On that cruise... Using spray sunscreen nearing the end of its life. Spray a swath, rub it down. Spray another, rub some more. "I grew up in Florida, I live in South Louisiana-- and it's 30 SPF! I always get red before I tan!" Suffice it to say that tiger stripes are not sexy, but they WILL get you a lot of attention. And the stories you can feed people about how it happened are almost worth the brutal agony of having missed SO MANY spots. (My favorite was, "It's tourist camo. I'm actually a Mexican local, but I like to blend in.")

Good stuff. I painstakingly figured out through hundreds of freestyle rounds that my new load had indeed shifted POI. So that's a plus. I'm excited to get out and get this problem sorted out. That is if this Tropical Storm would ever go away...

A pretty good shooting friend of mine is a Lefty and he uses one of the fingers on his strong hand-- the index, IIRC. Playing around with it myself, it actually feels pretty natural. My only concern is ending up with a finger inside the trigger guard under stress, but I'm far from practiced enough in this method to determine whether or not that's a valid consideration. As to the M&P-- I have relatively small hands, and my M&P 45 is one of a VERY small group that I can actually hit with my strong hand thumb without breaking/adjusting my grip. It is easy with the smallest backstrap insert, barely doable with the Medium and impossible with the Large. If you're not using the Small already, you might experiment with this-- provided it's not a detriment to your grip in general. I actually found the side-to-side swell of the Medium and Large inserts inhibit solid support hand grip for me anyway, but YMMV. Now, the gun I shoot in Production is a G17. With the standard mag release, I cannot hit it without breaking my grip. (The extended release tears into my support hand, so that's not an option either.) For the longest time, I was almost flinging the gun around in my hand to reach the release, and after a match without a single smooth reload, I decided to reassess my technique. What I found was that it didn't require much of a shift in grip to effectively and consistently hit the mag release. Simply dragging my strong hand fingers about 1/8-1/4 of an inch across the frontstrap did the trick. This not only provided for a more regular motion, but it also made reacquiring the shooting grip that much easier and quicker. I ultimately figured out that when I drop the support hand to reach for a new mag, if I hook the index finger on the edge of the trigger guard during that motion, it will naturally tug the pistol into position without any effort or change in pressure from the strong hand. According to the timer, I don't lose any speed at all in this manner over my very best "old style" reloads, plus the times are MUCH more consistent as I avoid fumbles and dramatic movements. My suggestion then is to spend the time to figure out just how much you have to move the gun in order to hit that mag release. You may discover, as I did, that you've been wasting a lot of motion and causing a lot of problems in your current approach. It may very well prove to be a better method for you than flipping the release around and using your strong hand fingers, and it should be a more natural transition for you to practice.

Thanks a ton for that, Mike. There's several things you talk about that I was definitely not doing-- or even worse, doing the opposite. I believe my target selection was a poor one as well, as it was basically a tiny little dot I was trying to balance on the center of the front post. I'll have to dig through the target folder and see if I can come up with an actual bench/zero type of target that meets the suggested criteria.

I've never really shot a handgun from the bench. Being relatively new to the platform in general, it's just not something that came up until I felt like I was good enough (freestyle) to see what my gun could do. Plus, the first time you shoot a 50 yarder in competition and have NO clue how your gun prints that far, it's a bit unsettling. I worked up a load for my Production gun (G17, factory barrel) and got the length and velocity to my ideal point. Based on the general consensus, it should be pretty accurate. Shooting it freestyle, I can say that it is indeed an improvement over factory stuff-- and even my "bad press group" has tightened up! So I went to shoot it from the bags at 25-ish, just to get an idea and make sure it was hitting POA at that distance. What a bleeding disaster! Without going into details, I am 100% certain I shoot better groups freestyle than I do from the bags. I rest my forearms on the first bag, without any portion of the gun touching it. I then press the trigger guard into the second bag, resting the length across the top. I tried it resting the trigger guard on top of the second bag with no improvement; I removed the second bag entirely with similar results. Frankly, I don't expect perfect performance as trigger control is definitely one of my weak spots. However, it doesn't make a lot of sense that I actually get WORSE from the bags. Any explanations or pointers?

You can improvise several drills by getting creative with the target. 3 Metrics at 7 yards, spaced 3 yards apart can be imitated with some proper scaling and ranging. The same can be said for plate racks. I will say that it behooves you to go beyond simply drawing outlines on the paper, as your eyes will not be able to find the proper index in most cases. You simply cannot see those little lines as clearly as the real, full sized object-- despite the similarities in size. Some tracing and cut outs would go a long way. You can also work on transitions (including "big" to "small") with all sorts of different stickers, pasters, marker work, etc. In reality, you're only limited by your own level of creativity! A real math whiz (or someone with more skills than every day stuff) could probably help you to perfectly scale your targets and distances based on what you have to work with. I've found that simply eyeballing it can produce pretty accurate results, but YMMV! Just remember-- you'll have to REALLY nitpick your hits, as the bullet hole is gonna be huge compared to the target. This also means you can't get too crazy on your simulated distances, and you won't get as much use out of the really small targets before they're shot completely out. TBH, there might be some discrepancies in your hits vs the actual trajectory out to your simulated range. I'll leave that to the geometry folks. At the very least, you can work on sight picture (as it will be consistent) and you can guarantee that perfect hits would indeed translate.

Well, proximity is always going to be a big one. Location, location, location-- it goes without saying. But assuming there's other options in the area... The staff is the most important thing, IMO. People are willing to pay a bit more for good customer service, friendly treatment and knowledgeable (but not pushy) advice. You obviously can't get away with completely ignoring all of the other factors, but in the end, it comes down to the people who work in the shop. More so than most other retail businesses, gunshops really do thrive on customer-employee interaction. In my experience, the vast majority of potential sales comes from folks who don't have a very firm idea of what they want or need. It takes a good salesman indeed to gauge their interests, knowledge base and requirements and then put together a selection of options. At the same time, true "gun guys" come in as well-- and they know exactly what they want, and why. Treating them in the same manner is a surefire way to put them off. Obviously, your staff has to switch gears-- and they'd better know what they're talking about, or the knowledgeable customer will have second thoughts about making a purchase. The single worst thing someone behind the counter can have is an elitist attitude. No one likes a smug know-it-all, regardless of their own familiarity with a subject. There is a gunshop with that reputation around my neck of the woods, and NO ONE in our local shooting community deals with that place. In the end, people will be willing to pay a bit more for quality service-- even if they don't consciously recognize that willingness. Just don't open up near some conglomerate that can undercut your best price by 20%. You'll end up giving sound advice and dealing with a ton of people who just drive down the street and buy the gun you pitched from the mega store. Honestly, aside from truly custom shops-- those places will eventually kill off the smaller gunshops.

When I'm actually seeing the sight well and calling the shots, I find that's not a problem. The first time it happened was a very strange feeling indeed-- but the lightbulb had gone off. Unfortunately, that doesn't cover trigger control. A miss due to poor sight alignment is really just a lack of visual patience. Its the physical act of the trigger finger that'll cause the sight to twitch just before the shot breaks, and will require a make up. I'm guessing that's what the OP is talking about, as if he knew the sights were misaligned that early in the "shot process", moving on the to the next target too early would probably not be a problem. It seems as if he is simply moving the gun before he's fully called that last shot, and driving it towards the next target before his brain has fully registered the miss. If he's not actually moving the gun before the shot breaks (which is a problem unto itself), I imagine it's just a matter of getting more and more practice calling the shot-- until he starts to recognize the need for a make up before the gun has already transitioned to the next target. I'm sure someone will be along with some more specifics!

Yep. Evil.

The last time I shot either prop at a match-- I shot both. At least they were on two different stages. And I owned 'em. I find the Star a lot more challenging, personally. The PPR really doesn't move much unless you manage the let the weights drop off-- or some sicko starts it off spinning, which I believe I've heard of in the past.