Vlad

I'm sorry, you seem angry, and I'm not sure why. I've read your earlier post, twice. You can not tell me for sure that pistol can not fire. For one, it is a staged pistol photo, not the original. Secondly, odd stuff happens all the time, what if the bullet was stuck 90 degrees from how it was with the primer jammed against a metal bit, just waiting for a small bump or jiggle to fire out of battery? There are a number of cases like the one in the staged photo where the gun is probably safe and a number of case where a round gets stuck in gun without being safe. How would you like the rule book written? How many pictures and angles of random jams should the rule book cover? Should the RO/CRO/MD try to make calls on the range saying .. well this round is at 15 degrees and its fine, but this one is at 25 degrees and is not? Somehow that is more fair? As I already said there is a problem with this type of rule, in that we consider a empty chamber, loaded mag, safety off, hammer down 1911 in the holster safer then a cocked an locked gun when holstered but we do it the opposite way when abandoned. Yes a glock in that photo would be considered safe while a 1911 is not and it doesn't really make a heck of a lot of sense, but unless you want a rule book that needs its own range cart and crew to wheel around to each stage when a call needs to be made, then you need to accept that there are simple lines drawn, know how they apply to your gun, and play. People get too wrapped up in this kinda issue. If the shooter racked the slide twice and used 0.25 seconds (or possibly none at all depending on the stage) this would have not matter. If he flicked the safety instead of trying to unload it, it would have been fine.

Sorry but your example is irrelevant. The rules spell out clearly that ammo in the gun without safety on is a DQ. You can argue that the rule is written wrong, you can talk to the MDs, you can choose not shoot the match. However it is not as if that rule wasn't clear, announced long in advanced and equally enforced. I made this point already buy you must have missed it, I had to DQ someone at the same match for placing a 2011 type gun in the dump bucket as it came from the holster, empty chamber, safety off, mag inserted. I don't think that makes sense, and expressed that to the MD/RM at the end of the match. However, it isn't my rule book, I play by it and enforce it equally. My opinion on the matter is irrelevant. How sure are you it can't fire? What if the bullet was stuck in a different position with part of slide locked against the primer? What if it was stuck on the ramp in a way that would chamber it when touched? The only gun I KNOW can't fire is the one I've made sure is empty or which has is safety engaged, and even the second one is not 100%. If you don't like that sort of rule, don't shoot the match. If you shoot the match then you commit yourself to shoot by the rules.

Why? It is either a safe gun in which can why should it sting at all, there should be no penalty or it is an unsafe gun in which case it should smart like hell and be a DQ. I wonder if this in between half measures of stage DQs and the like are partially to blame for people getting lax on how they abandon guns.

Yeah, but how did you chose it ?

I run a DR. I like it. It is very neutral for me, and it does its job. I'm sure bigger comps might be able to do better but given its size and weight and other benefits I would certainly buy it again.

I'm not really disagreeing with you, but on the other hand a few years ago there was a lot of grumbling on how shotguns are dated technology, and they are limited and it is all about left hand dexterity and so on. At least now the platform is changing/advancing and thats not a bad thing, unless you are paying to keep up.

Wow... just wow. I gotta remember that one... that's some weapons-grade whining there. To be fair, that was some weapons-grade dust we were choking on at the end of the stage, so I think lots of shooters were frustrated by it. I can tell you that the most comon response to "Unload and show clear" was "<Caugh><caugh>bleah<spit>Man that was some dust"

A heck of a lot of the DQ's were weapons dumped in unsafe conditions. Handguns with safeties off and ammo in them, rifles with safeties off and ammo in them but also a heck of a lot of shotguns left hot or locked back but with ammo in the mag. I think a lot of people assume "bolt locked back, gun must be empty", but that wasn't always true.

Like shooting a hostage? That is a make-believe safety violation, a no shoot it placed there to act as a possible trap for the shooter and it doesn't actually bleed when shot. A safety violation can result in real people bleeding all over the ground and a that is a completely different story then a cardboard hostage.

I think it is a DQ, and a match one at that. Personally I don't understand the notion of stage DQ, and I don't understand the notion of a time penalty for a safety violation. I'll up the stakes for the basic questions at the start of the thread, I ran across this issue recently: Stage was mostly shot shotgun/rifle but a lot of shooters chose have their handgun "loaded" and holstered and by "loaded" I mean magazine inserted, empty chamber, hammer down. Shooter starts that way with 2011 type firearm, loaded mag, empty chamber, hammer down, and shotgun in his hands. Later in the stage he correctly grounds the shotgun, and before picking up his rifle he decides to also ground his handgun, he safely draws it and places it in the bucket has holstered, empty chamber, mag inserted, hammer forward, safety OFF. The final call is DQ, because the handgun had ammo in it and the safety was off. I don't have a problem with that call, the rules for the match were clear that ammo in a gun with safety off is an early trip home, but I wonder how we can consider that specific condition safer then cocked and locked for the purpose of holstering it but less so for abandonment. I know lots of people despise thick rule books, but rule books get thick by solving these type of issues.

I worked stage 2. We made LOTS of people very angry, I don't know which specific incident you are referring to, but it is also possible I missed it completely because I mostly downrange holding the timer or scoring and I referred all issues to the folks at the top of the hill and the CRO. Believe me when I say that we were not happy about it, and in no way were we trying to be mean to anyone but I've been personally accused by one shooter of trying to ruin his match because I didn't warn him his feet were outside the free fire zone while he was shooting, another asked for a reshoot because the dust from me walking behind him interfered with his shooting as if I had any control over the dust and is just a sample of the type of issues raised. I'd bet 10% or more of the shooters were unhappy at us. I think a lot of shooters were very frustrated on that stage due to the dust, hard to see targets, and the VERY heavy back target. It felt pretty crappy to make that many shooters unhappy, but we just tried to run the stage for everyone the same way and call the targets the same for everyone. A big thank you to the Noveske shooters who stayed behind at the end of the match and helped tear down our stage. You guys know who you are, and you rock.

So .. what happens when the unscrupulous bastard intentional writes down the wrong time, say +/- 2 seconds? The issue is not a technological one, if is a social one and the solution is as it has always been.

If your range gets that bad its time for some drainage work on the property. One of the ranges I shoot at used to get about as bad as those pictures, its a amazing what some grading and water management can do. Before that we did occasionally shoot in mud that was half way to our knees, and those M9's worked in it.

The Recondos are too rich for my blood, but they look a LOT like the old M9s. Those were about 3.5lb for the pair (they used to make shorter M6 that I liked, but those disappeared quickly). I haven't worn Rockies in a long time, I think I've only owned one pair ever and they have many patterns so I dunno how to compare them.

http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/bolt-parts/bolt-hardware/benelli-rapid-bolt-release-tabs-prod61488.aspx

The Recondo sole has been around for a while on a number of their previous offerings. It is by far my favorite boot pattern and my shooting boots are my last pair of Bates M9s which are now discontinued but use that exact boot pattern. I've had good luck with that patter in mud half way up my shins, sand, wet grass, etc. It is a solid pattern, but I'm not in love with the price Bates wants for boots sporting it. The M9s were affordable, the M8 and Recondos not so much.

One small word of advice .. sell it in smaller quantities. The stuff just lasts for ever, my 2oz tub is years old now because I using sparingly and only on certain guns. Think like one use blisters, which would also be a good thing to give away at matches as samples, like 1/10oz or maybe even less.

Well I'm gonna guess stage 1 on creek, stage 2 on the left field across from the covered range thing (basically behind the stats shack), 3,4,5 in the pits, 6 off the containers across from the pits, not really sure about 7, and 8 and 9 from the top of the hill. But that is just a wild guess.

I'm going to guess based on the stage designs that 1-6 are on the lower side and 7-9 near the old house, up the hill. The place is big but easy to navigate as there is basically ONE road.

I'll suggest that maybe that's just a template image and that actual targets will vary, but thats me.

Im curious why you think they are 6" autopoppers? The true pessimist would just assume they are the 4" skinny targets

Shh, Bill just loves is Ez.

Well two years ago, staff had a lot of downtime between sessions and we got to shoot all the side events. Last year I'm not sure we even had time to make it down food most days. It didn't help that I was working the furthest possible stage. I know what we did right two years ago on our stage was simply send off one RO at a time to visit the sights and smell the flowers. With 8 RO's per stage that shouldn't be hard.

Used car prices are still suffering from the cash for clunkers thing. It removed a lot of cars that would have otherwise ended up on the used market.

It can feel that way, but math tells the story. All vehicles are depreciating assets, their value will eventually be zero, unless they are collectables. Daily drivers go to zero in 10-15years depending on style of driving, location, uses, etc. About half way through that or earlier you start putting extra money into them, timing belts, AC compressors, water pumps, etc, etc. Add EVERY dime you spent on the car divide by the number of months you held it, and you may find that that car held for 10+ years might have cost more per month then a cheaper lease. With the lease you also got better millage every 3 year, and depending how you drove it never bought a set of tires. Heck, on some of them you might have never payed for a an oil change and likelihood is you never lost a days work from the car being broken. You also got that new car smell every 3 years. That said, I buy my cars and I keep them until repairing them becomes more expensive then buying a new one. On the other hand I buy fairly cheap vehicles (or at least value leaders in their class), I try to buy them when dealers want to be rid of them, and I argue a lot of the dealer about the price.