AWLAZS

I mounted the back pack to my DA cart. I used a bungee cord from the axle an hooded it into the two rings at the top of the bag.

I will check it out thanks

Eric that's a great idea for the tools. I don't understand what you mean by turning the ammo box inside out to get more room.

I just went and tried ti stuff my two open guns in there. I do not think its a good idea. I could not zip the pouch up.

Did that help you out? My redneck buddy just asked if i thought he would be able to duct tape it to his daa cart

I just loaded the Shooters Connection back pack up for the first time.

I just received a back pack and a new video camera. I will load the bag up and do a video tomorrow

IT will fit in there

Sarge do you shoot that gun? It still looks new.

If you want a tr jig I can sell you one.

No you can't run a PCC with zero changes. the proposed appendix proves that as well as having to modify positions that PCC shooters shoot from in some stages. Saying zero changes is just wrong If PCC was so popular at SHOT then it shouldn't be to hard to create stand alone matches. I mean if there is so much industry support why not. Why not? I know several matches can and have run PCC with zero changes to the match. Yes PCC has different start positions but it has zero effect, well maybe 10 extra seconds reading the WSB. Creating standalone matches is completely different. I'm assuming you've never done it yourself. I set up matches all the time. You're not the only one who has set up and ran matches in this discussion. Personally I like to draw more shooters not turn them away. But you're okay with alienating some current members? That WILL happen, whether you like it or not. One moderator on this forum has told me that if PCC actually becomes official, he may switch to another shooting sport. Yeah, now you guys will say "if that's his attitude, let him go" or something similar. The FIRST step in growing a sport is the maintain the current members. You may lose a few but your likely to gain far more. Honestly those saying they will leave makes no sense to me since it does not detract from their division or shooting. Its like they are mad that someone else is having fun. What makes you say we are likely to gain far more new shooters then we would loose? What really bugs me is the comments about how pcc will not detract from my division. How do you know that? PCC will change course design there is no way around it. Setting a stage up so that its fun to shoot with a rifle is different then fun to shoot with a handgun. Our stages and matches will change. Its just how people think when they set stuff up. A stage designer sets a stage up with an idea of how he wants folks to shoot it. It may punish or reward any one platform over the other or not. Ever shoot with a left handed guy they bitch about the right handedness of stages all the time. It has to happen, someone will walk up to set a stage up and they will say that will be a hard lean with my rifle and adjust their cof. We have had several examples of stages set up at matches that would have been impossible to shoot with a rifle. We have all seen the hold a rope in one hand and lean around the wall stages. I know there is some you tube video of someone doing it but that does not really matter I can do lots of things in practice that I would not want to try to do on the clock. People will think about that when they set stages up. They may do stuff to make PCC harder kind of a !@#$ statement or adjust it for safety or ease of use. It affects the stages I shoot. I am not worried about being losing to a guy shooting a rifle. You guys are stuck on that. I know a few people have mentioned it not being fair between divisions because the long gun guys get to start holding their guns and its against the rules for handgun guys to do that. I don't care about that. I just like my matches the way they are. Besides stage design influence. There is some extra work involved in preparing a match for pcc. Just in case some one shows up. I might not be huge labor intense things but its still work. Back to the presumptions of 'undesirable change' and 'negative effect'. Now just threaten to quit over the introduction of PCC and we will have a drama trifecta. Beat that cow, it ain't dead yet! Your are presuming nothing will change whats the difference?

No you can't run a PCC with zero changes. the proposed appendix proves that as well as having to modify positions that PCC shooters shoot from in some stages. Saying zero changes is just wrong If PCC was so popular at SHOT then it shouldn't be to hard to create stand alone matches. I mean if there is so much industry support why not. Why not? I know several matches can and have run PCC with zero changes to the match. Yes PCC has different start positions but it has zero effect, well maybe 10 extra seconds reading the WSB. Creating standalone matches is completely different. I'm assuming you've never done it yourself. I set up matches all the time. You're not the only one who has set up and ran matches in this discussion. Personally I like to draw more shooters not turn them away. But you're okay with alienating some current members? That WILL happen, whether you like it or not. One moderator on this forum has told me that if PCC actually becomes official, he may switch to another shooting sport. Yeah, now you guys will say "if that's his attitude, let him go" or something similar. The FIRST step in growing a sport is the maintain the current members. You may lose a few but your likely to gain far more. Honestly those saying they will leave makes no sense to me since it does not detract from their division or shooting. Its like they are mad that someone else is having fun. What makes you say we are likely to gain far more new shooters then we would loose? What really bugs me is the comments about how pcc will not detract from my division. How do you know that? PCC will change course design there is no way around it. Setting a stage up so that its fun to shoot with a rifle is different then fun to shoot with a handgun. Our stages and matches will change. Its just how people think when they set stuff up. A stage designer sets a stage up with an idea of how he wants folks to shoot it. It may punish or reward any one platform over the other or not. Ever shoot with a left handed guy they bitch about the right handedness of stages all the time. It has to happen, someone will walk up to set a stage up and they will say that will be a hard lean with my rifle and adjust their cof. We have had several examples of stages set up at matches that would have been impossible to shoot with a rifle. We have all seen the hold a rope in one hand and lean around the wall stages. I know there is some you tube video of someone doing it but that does not really matter I can do lots of things in practice that I would not want to try to do on the clock. People will think about that when they set stages up. They may do stuff to make PCC harder kind of a !@#$ statement or adjust it for safety or ease of use. It affects the stages I shoot. I am not worried about being losing to a guy shooting a rifle. You guys are stuck on that. I know a few people have mentioned it not being fair between divisions because the long gun guys get to start holding their guns and its against the rules for handgun guys to do that. I don't care about that. I just like my matches the way they are. Besides stage design influence. There is some extra work involved in preparing a match for pcc. Just in case some one shows up. I might not be huge labor intense things but its still work.

Are second photos different cases then the first?

They don't look like they are seated deep enough.

He shoots it like a pistol and off one shoulder

This kind of condescending attitude does not make anyone more likely to support you. Just because overall results are not important to you doesn't make the fact that they are important to some less valuable.This is really tiring. For the umpteenth time, having concerns about this change does not mean that I 1) don't like fun 2) am some sniveling jerk inflating my ego by looking at overall results 3) am some backwards Luddite that is against change or 4) any other condescending or insulting descriptor that you can arrange to serve your purpose. There are legitimate concerns that legitimately need to be addressed before making what is, in truth, a major change to what has always been a pistol match. Moreover, this is not a either / or decision. In fact, there are many ways to introduce PCC into USPSA. Shoe horning it into a pistol match is but one of them. Adding it as a new discipline is another. I've laid out how to have your cake and eat it too by running this new discipline separately but concurrently with an existing handgun match - a solution that has many benefits over and above the reduction in controversy. Not condescending at all. "HOA" is an imaginary win and we need to stop posting it. Your place in your division is the only thing that is real. Everything else is outside the rules. To make this change easier we need to clarify the rules and stop catering to those who like to see an imaginary placing in an imaginary division. I think HOA is important. We have folks that are the only person shooting in their division It gives them something to look at. I know when we stopped posting the HOA results I received a bunch of requests to get it back up on the webpage.

Chuck, If you look back through the thread some of the folks that think it the rifle division should be added to the pistol matches say because its so popular. I think if its worth doing do it right. It should be its own thing. I think more people would shoot it if they didn't have to decide between pistol or rifle. Heck I would give it a try. But I am not going to leave my pistol at home to shoot a rifle at my pistol events. A stand alone sport under the banner of uspsa would not be that big of a deal if the interest is there. The people interested in the sport would have to do the work. I have discussed this topic with my club members. They did not have a lot of interest in it. A couple of guys said they might try it out but were not keen on missing the pistol match. It seemed to me, after talking with my club, a stand alone match would be more popular.

Except that your statement is a good argument for adding PCC to USPSA as opposed to creating a separate sporting entity How do you figure that? Because you can draw those extra shooters make the club money when you otherwise could not hold a match just for one division and have much success. Your argument is the say as saying Revolver shooters should do their own matches. Their not pistols after all their revolvers. ` A revolver is not a handgun covered in the handgun rule book that we run our matches by? When did that happen?

Why wouldn't the rules apply to everyone shooting the same match? What shooters would I be turning away? I have never had to tell someone with the proper equipment they could not shoot the match.

Except that your statement is a good argument for adding PCC to USPSA as opposed to creating a separate sporting entity How do you figure that?

No you can't run a PCC with zero changes. the proposed appendix proves that as well as having to modify positions that PCC shooters shoot from in some stages. Saying zero changes is just wrong If PCC was so popular at SHOT then it shouldn't be to hard to create stand alone matches. I mean if there is so much industry support why not. Why not? I know several matches can and have run PCC with zero changes to the match. Yes PCC has different start positions but it has zero effect, well maybe 10 extra seconds reading the WSB. Creating standalone matches is completely different. I'm assuming you've never done it yourself. I set up matches all the time.

The STI aluminum one is the smallest I have seen

They would apply to who ever shoots the match.

You may want to explore the quote function if you want to respond to someone.I'm waiting for someone to try making sense of adding a rifle division the the PISTOL rules....not seeing anybody coming close to it. The best people have come up with so far is "it won't hurt anything" or something along those lines. There are already matches dedicated to 3-gun, multi-gun etc...and that's where rifles belong. Why someone feels the need to mess with pistol matches is beyond me. For all the folks who say it won't change anything, that's simply not the case, and it's easy to prove. Now for any stage with a turning start we're going to say "oops, you have to add a table to your stage design for the PCC shooters...sorry, it's how it has to be. Too bad you can't have the stage set up the way you wanted it, there's got to be a table taking up space where you might have wanted something else." Mini-Mart? Let's just change that classifier because it won't work for PCC. Melody Line? Hmmm...guess we'll have to add a table for that as well. Gun in box stages (yes, I've seen those recently)...nope, unless you build an extra box for PCC. Beware the law of unintended consequences. The chance that stage designs won't get altered at least a little bit is virtually nonexistent. Stage designers will see how PCC shooters game their stages, and they will respond and before you know it we could wind up with either the stupidest rifle stages or the stupidest pistol stages at the same match. If I was running a club I know I would already be expecting that the PCC shooters are going to start complaining that clubs haven't made racks for their guns, so add that to the to-do list, along with the associated time/cost involved...every bay now needs a carbine rack, and probably an extra safe area/table to accommodate them. Strawman argument much? Aghhhhh, stuff will have to be added! Stuff will have to be changed! Or maybe it won't. Facing up range pistol, PCC start facing downrange at low ready. Pistol gun in box, PCC start facing downrange at low ready. There are much simpler fixes than the ones you propose. PCC shooters want a rack? They can build their own, squad together and take it with them. This is not that difficult. As far as why in a pistol match instead of a 3 Gun match. It's a lot easier to change nothing than to try and set up two sets of targets. One for rifle and one for PCC. PCC is not really a viable option at 500 yards. Or really even 200. You can run a PCC on a pistol stage with zero changes not to say some might not occur. There were more new PCC's at SHOT this year than in any three years combined I can remember. 9mm is cheap again but .223 is still up there so a lot of people are buying them. We can give them a spot to shoot and give them an entry point into USPSA or we can pass. As much as I've shot USPSA in the last year it really doesn't matter to me. 8.2.3 You cant start the competitor while they are touching their gun etc.

For all intents and purposes its the same on both counts. Besides why do you care if a carbine shooter starts at the low ready. YOU ARE NOT SHOOTING AGAINST THEM! There is a whole lot of whining going on for no reason. How someone else shoots in another division does nothing to take away from your division.