Tim/GA

Had to come up with a last minute stage for tomorrow in one of our small, narrow bays. In keeping with a re-kindled post in the USPSA rules section on Mozambique targets I put this one together. The setup and RO instructions are long to help with questions. Any thoughts or suggestions? Legal (pretty sure it is but want other eyes look it over)? Edit- Updated file with suggestions below. Mozambique x 6.pdf

Yes, that was the one I remembered and used for the idea. Thanks for posting it. I like being able to see what some of you all are putting together. Even if they won't quite work for what we have, a few changes or just the starting idea can also help. Hoping in time that others will start posting stages as well. Another good thing about posting them is that others can see if there are any issues or ways to add and make the stage better. Now that my new computer is back with the new hard drive, I need to start playing with Sketchpad.

That is going to be something to look at on the range, I always add it to the setup notes if I think there might be an issue. We will put T7-9 on short sticks and the others up higher. Should be able to make it work on the range though. Got the idea for the rope from the SC State match earlier this year. There was a stage where you had to pull the rope and hold it to shoot 2 targets. Actually I think you could tie off or whatever if you wanted but I think everyone just shot it strong hand. Going to work on something like that for the future.

I think I am going to add that one to ours as well. Has come up a few times already in the short time I have been MD.

Thanks and sure, be my guest. I figure anything I post here is open for others to either use or use for ideas for what will work at their match. This one started from looking at a stage posted by Spanky that I thought looked good but would not fit our props or bay layout. Ended up using the basic idea and working in what we could do. Will be using it this weekend as well.

Had planned on the 2 targets behind the barrels on the right either being on a rack that the shooter could pull up by rope and engage (while holding the rope) from area A or they can move to B and shoot. Not home from the ProAm so have not had a chance to test it out though so barrels for now. Also, I know the part of the WSB about only targets available from B is a level 1 thing. Need to save on barrels and walls. When set up I would say those targets will be right on the 180 and facing the wrong way, don't want anyone to break it. Comments, suggestions? Around the Bend- bay 3.pdf

Not sure about amateur video, but I have to think that run will make the show when Shooting USA puts it all together, they were there shooting it with multiple cameras again. Who knows if it will be the Open or Limited run. The Pros shot the Limited match first, that was the first time Manny got it and the one I got to see. Did not get to see the Open run though.

As all have said above, a great match to shoot. After seeing it on TV the past few years I was HAPPY to see it was going to be in FL, knew I had to shoot it then! Thanks Phil and family for putting on a great match so far from home, know that had to make it a lot harder for you all and appreciate you still taking it on. Great prize tables, even for those of us well down the list. Thanks ROs for the long hot days. Gotta thank Manny for the work that let this happen AND for the chance to see him round 3rd in the Pro Limited match and come in to home. You could have heard a pin drop while he lined up for that homerun shot- seemed like he was standing there a LONG time. I thought the Shooting USA guys were going to break a leg when they jumped up from the cart they were sitting on when we all heard that bullet hit. Was glad our squad got there in time for that one.

I like WSF as well, with Precision Delta 165 FMJs it makes major quite easily out of my Glock 35. WST seemed to be just a bit to fast and I also prefer a powder that fills more of the case and has a higher charge weight than WST. When you start throwing charges below 4grns there is to much room for error. If your measure throws a charge that is .2 grns over, that is a much larger percentage than with a 5.5 grn charge. If you are pushing the upper limits that can be bad, but also if it throws one under you might not make powerfactor at a match, not the mention the possibility of a double charge.

Is this a problem even with the stock barrel in M&Ps?

I don't see a reason not to give them a score even if a new shooter does get help. Rule book says: 8.6.2.1 When approved by the Range Officer, competitors at Level I matches may, without penalty, receive whatever coaching or assistance they request. For some other experienced shooters the problem they have is the requesting part and they feel the person has to ask for the help. By the rules that is true so at the new shooters brief we tell the new ones to inform the RO (who already know who is new but a reminder is good) that they are new and that takes care of the requesting part. I have only seen this backfire one time while at our sister club, a new shooter got upset with some coaching, but that is rare. We do the new shooters brief as well, but I find it hard to get enough across without giving to much info. It really comes down to letting the new shooters)know the safety rules and consequences, to let the ROs know they are new and to get their hits and not worry about time on this first match. And of course to have fun.

Could have used this thread in my 2nd match as a MD! I had a stage idea that I really wanted to use but could not figure out a way for the RO to be able to safely be in control without leaving a place for the RO to move through. I ended up calling the outgoing MD to see what he thought because the way I read the rule a FA is put in DURING a match to take care of an issue and I was looking for something to use prior to the match. Ended up putting it in the WSB that the opening was for RO use only and it worked out fine. Fun stage, was glad to be able to use it but even more happy to have a way for the ROs to be in control and safe. On the other hand, have had a few of my "carefully" worked out stages get pretty well thrashed by a shooter who sees a way to shoot it better. Good for them and a lesson learned for me! What I find interesting is when other shooters who have already shot the stage then get a little upset, I just told them to read the WSB. Lesson learned for them as well.

Not sure who you were asking either, but in case you want my very uninformed (new to the spring change game) choice, they are ISMI. I am using a non-captured tungsten guide rod from Speed Shooter's Specialties and the various springs Kenny brought with it for me were from ISMI so those are what I am using. It looks like those are the ones he suggests on the website but it does say others can be used.

Interesting outcome. Just left the range and was working with some 40 cal. minor loads and the springs. I came away with more questions than answers though (will have to spend more time and ammo on it but had to get home to load ammo for the ProAm this weekend!). Like you said above, it seems like the going wisdom is that the lighter recoil spring the better and another common thread seems to be that the heavier bullet will give softer shooting 40 minor ammo. Both seemed to be wrong for me today. I have been shooting a 15lb spring since downloading for minor as the 17lb was to stiff. I tried the 13lb spring and could not really see a difference in the sights tracking at first (I am using a tungsten guide rod) but then I realized that my POI was not about 2 inches high at 10 yards! I had not seen a real shift in where the rounds impact at 10 yards over a wide range of velocities or different bullet weights or in the change from 17 to 15lb springs. For now, that was it for the 13lb spring, but wonder what caused the shift. I also seemed to find that the 165grn FMJs felt like they were shooting softer than 180s running slightly slower, again against what most people report. Moral of the story, suggestions and info are great but you better shoot it yourself to really know what works!

I am hoping NOT to have to find out this weekend. Somehow managed to grab the muffler on the mower yesterday and am shooting the ProAm this weekend. Iced it quickly and only have blisters on a small part of the palm, thumb and 2 fingers so I am hoping it will be OK without a glove or anything.

Nice! Now you all have me wondering because it looks like Crimson Trace is sponsoring a side match at the AR-15.com/Rockcastle ProAm in Aug. From the blurb on the webpage the side match will use CT's equipment and be held in one of the caves on the match property. Should be fun!

Thus the sign I stick in the road (as it turns on the gun club property) before each match- makes it pretty clear cut then. Had some issues when I took over earlier this year as MD and we happened to start getting a bunch of new shooters. Gun club rules do not make this an issue, but match rules supersede club rules in this issue and the sign is one last reminder.

It is funny that we would not put up cardboard with white as a shoot but the steel is almost always white. The Florida Open this year had the steel all painted blue. In shadows early and late and with the longer shots sometimes the steel was a bit tougher being blue though. We did do a fluorescent orange steel stage one year at Halloween.

If you go to the ProAm website (www.proamshooting.com) and go to the scoring page they still have the scores from last year linked. Looks like the timed tie-breaker stage can have an impact!

I am just the opposite on my 35. After changing over from the 23 I often have the slide NOT lock back due to the my thumb on the slide stop. Gave it some time since I like the stop on table starts as it pops the gun up a bit on non-propped starts but still having the problem with my high and big thumbs. Going to have to switch over to the standard stop.

Was there any powder in the barrel after your squib? I have had 2 in the last year and both had powder in the cases. The first one there was a pop and then what can only be described as a "sizzle". That one jammed the bullet 1/2" from the muzzle of a Glock 35 AND chambered a new round. Thankfully the RO and I both heard it. Could not get that one out at the range, broke one guy's squib rod, had to put penetrating oil in over night and knock it out with a duct tape wrapped steel rod. Don't know if the powder somehow was contaminated or maybe a partially blocked primer hole? Seems like it must have blown the powder out of the case and into the barrel where it burned. The second happened at the SC Section Championship this year. That one sounded just like yours and I automatically chambered a new round but both the RO and I stopped before I pulled the trigger. I had powder all over my arm and jammed in the barrel behind the bullet which was only about 1/2" into the barrel. This one popped out easily once the gun was disassembled. I know the primer was not in backwards but don't know why this one happened.

Had never had a squib in the past, but had one earlier this year in a multi-gun match. In that case it was the 1st gun of 3 on the stage and I could ditch it according to the WSB and move on with other guns but the RO stopped me. I did have the squib but was given a re-shoot since I could finish the stage and have it scored, but over course that is not how a pistol only stage/match would go. As to the squib, it was a weird one as it was not a no powder squib- it made more of a sizzling sound and stuck the bullet about 1/2" from the muzzle of a Glock 35 and - here is the scary part- it cycled the slide. Was glad I did not pull that trigger! Ended up shooting my Glock 27 that I had carried on the trip for the whole match, that was fun. The thing about a squib is that it does something to your head. The next 2 matches I shot it was stuck in my head, even if I had shot many, many thousands prior to the squib. I stopped myself on one stage and zeroed it with no squib and held up on another due to a lighter load before going on. I was also working on lighter production loads at the time. Still would not stop me from calling it myself if I thought I had a squib, even if it means a zero.

Oops! Thanks, changed it over. Should be the right one now. I HATE being on my old computer and keeping the changes on a thumb drive. Thought I was saving on one drive, but it was the other. Also, after this and another post- I am changed my templates to Metric instead of IPSC.

And you have to remember that classifier stages are designed to be as "objective" as possible since they are being set up, shot and scored all over at different clubs. Thus they seem to be a judge of your speed and accuracy. There are always some sandbaggers but then there are also those who don't shoot those types of stages particularly well but shoot the normal freestyle stages much better. That is where the Level 2 and above matches that can be used for classification is a good addition.

The wall on the barrels was wide enough someone would have to climb up on both to see all the targets (might now have been able to even then), but you make a good point and added that to the WSB. That is why in another stage I had shooters put an ammo can in a chair rather than in a 3x3 square after one a few months ago tried to throw the can 20 yards and land it in the square! I also added Classic to the WSB, my template has the IPSC and I forgot to add Classic when writing it. Don't use them often but with the GA state Champ. being all Classic targets I figured we had better shoot a few of them leading up to it. ArmdCtzn- I was just starting to play with Sketchup when my new laptop's hard drive crapped out. I am on my old one for now and it is not fast enough to run it so will have to wait. Like how it looked in 3D though. Just need to make sure to only use one type of target. Updated version attached. Get Low- updated.pdf