BillR1

Yep, I'll be there! There are several of us coming over from AZ to shoot REV division...should be fun!

Legally once the new magazine is seated and as long as your slide is in battery you are free to move. ^^^This!

Yes, you could've reloaded and made up those missed shots. If your revolver reloads are pretty quick, that may have been the wise choice. Those 4 shots down cost you a total of 10 seconds, so you should be able to reload and fire 4 rounds in that time.

right but if two rounds are called for and you fire 7 at the target and 5 land fully in the hardcover and 2 land in the scoring zone, then you get no penalties at all, except the mockery of your squadmates. the point is that (unlike a no-shoot), you are not penalized for the rounds that hit the hardcover, you are penalized for the *lack* of rounds that hit the scoring target. Correct...I see your point now.

If 2 rounds are called for and fired on the target and both land fully in the hard cover, you get a -5 for each one. (in addition to an FTN if the round count is not limited)

It's scored -5 for each round that's fully in the hard cover. (black area)

The SIG P320 Carry is perfect for CCP just like it is. It has a 3.9" barrel and uses full-size mags for a great grip.BTW, I got a clarification on this rule from Robert Ray. He said it IS legal to shorten the dust cover on the replaceable grip module for the P320.

I posted this on the IDPA forum, but I want to get feedback from here also... After a couple of recent discussions on this subject, I've become convinced that many of IDPA's equipment rules are needlessly cumbersome and could be greatly simplified. IMO, equipment regulations for the divisions should be limited to physical characteristics only, without regard for how they got that way. For example, if a bobbed hammer is legal for REV division, it shouldn't make any difference if the shooter bobbed his own factory hammer or he bought one already modified, provided all safety features remained in place. If a certain length dust cover is legal and the gun fits in "the box", what difference does it make if the gun was bought with that length dust cover or if the shooter shortened it? The end result is the same. There are many examples like this. It seems like this concept would greatly simplify equipment check stations at matches. The person doing the inspection would only need to check the gun for proper safety functionality and make sure the gun is physically legal for a particular division. (box fit, barrel length, weight, magazine weight, etc.) They would not be tasked with being an expert in all types of firearms and trying to determine if a particular gun originally came in this configuration or not. This seems too easy...what am I missing?

Totally don't understand. ??? It's an aftermarket magazine loader. They work really well!

I was also having the rounds fail to "plunk" at 1.135, but they fed and shot just fine. I don't think it was a crimp issue because they passed my Wilson case gauge easily. Anyway, I'm now shooting them at 1.115 and they pluck and shoot perfectly.

I don't notice a huge difference, but I like the 147s a little better. They seem to recover faster, although I run them at about 134pf instead of trying to hit the PF floor.

Thanks for the link!

I'll definitely be waiting for the DVD. After standing in line for several hours (1977) to see the first one only to fall asleep soon after sitting down, I'll make sure I'm in my recliner before watching another Star Wars movie.

Understood...I have no desire to skirt any rules. I also submitted a question on it this morning. My question is about the Sig P320. The replaceable frame for the full-size and the carry model is identical except for the length of the dust cover. It sounds like I would need to buy a Carry frame instead of cutting a FS frame, even though the end result would be the same.

The IDPA rulebook lists a variety of different modifications that are allowed on the frame of a gun used in ESP. Robar grip reductions, stippling/texturing anywhere, trigger undercutting, magwell additions and/or internal smoothing, etc Since these mods are allowed, are others allowed? For instance, if I wanted to modify the length of a frame's dust cover or light rail by shortening it, that sure seems to (IMO) follow at least the "spirit of the rule" if not the "letter". Thoughts?

It sounds like you may have some stage designers with very little imagination. In the matches I attend in this area, there are always stages with different ways to shoot them.

This! Bladetech and CompTac are both solid choices. I use Bladetech for my competition holsters.

My Rudys have the Rx insert. My dominant eye is corrected for front sight distance (+1.50), and the other eye is plano since my distance vision is 20/20. I do shoot better when I remember to put them on as soon as I get to the range. It takes about 10-15 minutes for my eyes to adjust to them.

Good points but aren't most people paying for trigger work on the Sigs too? I'm wondering how many people actually end up swapping barrels on their M&P's? It's a hard stat to track down. The factory triggers on the P320s are light years ahead of a factory M&P trigger...really no comparison! The M&P 45 I had came with THE WORST factory trigger I've ever seen on any firearm. I've done some polishing myself on the Sigs, but so far I haven't seen the need to send the gun off to Bruce Gray...yet! Apex parts for the M&P are cheaper than a trip to a gunsmith, but unlike the Sigs the M&P trigger work is almost always needed.

Consistency is another term for loser... You have to push yourself to your limits, or how will you truly know what your limits are. Especially in local matches, or why compete. Take up Bulls Eye shooting if you want consistency. I like to push myself very hard in training. The range is what I like to call my laboratory. That is where I can experiment and fail/learn. So I do agree with your second sentence and it is something I see in people at a certain plateau in there shooting. They are only willing to do something to where they can guarantee a -0 hit. If that's all you do, that's all you'll probably get. (while acknowledging that speed can not be forced. speed is gained in repetition, consistency, confidence and efficiency) I do not practice or train in my comfort zone.Your third sentence speaks to matches. Competition. And your first sentence about consistency and losing. There is a continuum my skill level lives on at any given day from ok to awesome. If score is being kept I absolutely do not shoot my 100% nor do I push my limits in competition. I prefer to shoot at whatever is 95% of my best at matches on average. So yeah, I'd be unhappy running 90, but I'd love to be at 95% all the time in a match! (Per racknrider above) From locals to regionals to state wide to nationals to worlds I've looked at the data of the people I beat or who beat me. The winner of the division or even down at the class level almost always falls into one of two categories. 1:They beat everyone, every stage. This does happen but not as often as number two. 2. They finish second or third every stage. They are not first, 12th, first, 8th, 1st, 14th, third. The type of consistent performance to finish at 2nd or 3rd each and every time to come out the overall winner does not happen when you are going all out, pushing yourself, shooting each stage at 100%. It just doesn't. There might be some language confusion by what each of us mean by saying "go all out", "try my hardest", "go as fast as I can", or "give it 100%." These might mean very different things to me than you and in different circumstances.There is a level of subtlety to my actions, visions, planning and performance of all of this that is hidden in these kinds of statements. And now to maybe clarify my statement that kinda brought all this out. (btw, i am more than happy to pm about any of this as well) I make an effort not to shoot near scoring lines, I don't want someone to make that judgement call. At the walk through I do not move my foot 1/4" at a time asking, "is this in cover, is this in cover, is this still in cover?" I shoot where I know I am in cover. Are my splits and transitions fast? Yes. But a human being isn't judging me on those actions. Any action or procedure I do in a stage I make a conscious effort to do it such that no one can make an issue about it. Being on that thin end is not the place to be all the time. You get doubles called as mikes. You get cover calls. You get procedurals. You don't help yourself. Don't choose actions such that another can judge them is what I meant, as you probably won't be happy with the judging. And in IDPA you get judged by another person on where your bullet holes are, where your feet and lower body are and how you navigate the stage. You help yourself by having a good, coherent stage plan you can completely visualize before you shoot. You help yourself by having the fundamentals perfected. You help yourself by developing the skill to shoot things quickly at distance. To shoot an array activator-static-static-mover. You help by how you get in and out of positions. And to do these at your 90-95%, over and over again. The best definition for good competition shooting I ever heard, was from Bill Go and he described it to me as." Good shooting is executing the fundamentals, perfectly, every time, at speed and under conditions not of your choosing." I know I wrote quite a bit here and to more than one poster's statements. If you have a question or want me to just flesh out some of these statements please ask, I gladly will in pm or publicly. Consistency is another term for loser... You have to push yourself to your limits, or how will you truly know what your limits are. Especially in local matches, or why compete. Take up Bulls Eye shooting if you want consistency. I like to push myself very hard in training. The range is what I like to call my laboratory. That is where I can experiment and fail/learn. So I do agree with your second sentence and it is something I see in people at a certain plateau in there shooting. They are only willing to do something to where they can guarantee a -0 hit. If that's all you do, that's all you'll probably get. (while acknowledging that speed can not be forced. speed is gained in repetition, consistency, confidence and efficiency) I do not practice or train in my comfort zone.Your third sentence speaks to matches. Competition. And your first sentence about consistency and losing. There is a continuum my skill level lives on at any given day from ok to awesome. If score is being kept I absolutely do not shoot my 100% nor do I push my limits in competition. I prefer to shoot at whatever is 95% of my best at matches on average. So yeah, I'd be unhappy running 90, but I'd love to be at 95% all the time in a match! (Per racknrider above) From locals to regionals to state wide to nationals to worlds I've looked at the data of the people I beat or who beat me. The winner of the division or even down at the class level almost always falls into one of two categories. 1:They beat everyone, every stage. This does happen but not as often as number two. 2. They finish second or third every stage. They are not first, 12th, first, 8th, 1st, 14th, third. The type of consistent performance to finish at 2nd or 3rd each and every time to come out the overall winner does not happen when you are going all out, pushing yourself, shooting each stage at 100%. It just doesn't. There might be some language confusion by what each of us mean by saying "go all out", "try my hardest", "go as fast as I can", or "give it 100%." These might mean very different things to me than you and in different circumstances.There is a level of subtlety to my actions, visions, planning and performance of all of this that is hidden in these kinds of statements. And now to maybe clarify my statement that kinda brought all this out. (btw, i am more than happy to pm about any of this as well) I make an effort not to shoot near scoring lines, I don't want someone to make that judgement call. At the walk through I do not move my foot 1/4" at a time asking, "is this in cover, is this in cover, is this still in cover?" I shoot where I know I am in cover. Are my splits and transitions fast? Yes. But a human being isn't judging me on those actions. Any action or procedure I do in a stage I make a conscious effort to do it such that no one can make an issue about it. Being on that thin end is not the place to be all the time. You get doubles called as mikes. You get cover calls. You get procedurals. You don't help yourself. Don't choose actions such that another can judge them is what I meant, as you probably won't be happy with the judging. And in IDPA you get judged by another person on where your bullet holes are, where your feet and lower body are and how you navigate the stage. You help yourself by having a good, coherent stage plan you can completely visualize before you shoot. You help yourself by having the fundamentals perfected. You help yourself by developing the skill to shoot things quickly at distance. To shoot an array activator-static-static-mover. You help by how you get in and out of positions. And to do these at your 90-95%, over and over again. The best definition for good competition shooting I ever heard, was from Bill Go and he described it to me as." Good shooting is executing the fundamentals, perfectly, every time, at speed and under conditions not of your choosing." I know I wrote quite a bit here and to more than one poster's statements. If you have a question or want me to just flesh out some of these statements please ask, I gladly will in pm or publicly. Great stuff Rowdy!

The M&Ps are not bad guns, but most people end up swapping the barrel to get decent accuracy and putting the Apex trigger parts in. The total cost is way more than a P320 that already has a good trigger and superb accuracy.

I don't know...a few weeks of dedicated dry-fire would make that DA first shot a non-issue. The trigger is better than a striker-fired gun for shots #2 through the end of the stage. The weight/transition is a valid point, although some feel that the advantages of a heavier gun outweigh the transition differences. Just really curious...

Could someone kindly explain to me the reasoning behind spending ~$1K (barrel/trigger/sight upgrades, etc.) on an M&P when a more accurate and solid gun can be had for less money? Seriously, what am I missing? I used to shoot M&Ps quite a bit, but I fail to see the logic of spending that much cash on a polymer gun just to get something with acceptable accuracy. For >$1K, I could get a nearly competition-ready CZ Shadow and have a more accurate and far more durable gun than any polymer firearm.

The problem with an aftermarket barrel is the overall cost. My buddy just did one, and he has over $1K in an M&P! Gun $600 Sights $120 Barrel $200 +$35 for fitting Apex trigger $100 For $1K, I could buy a CZ Shadow and have a WAY better gun. I've had (several) M&Ps with KKM barrels, and my P320 will shoot circles around them.

THIS! ^^^