mactiger

Nice way to crowdsource an exam answer....

These are USPSA rules, not IPSC rules. "Range is clear" ends the course of fire in USPSA. GuildSF4 had the best answer on here, with added emphasis on the last two sentences of 8.3.1: "The competitor must then assume the required start position. At this point, the Range Officer will proceed." Always run your timer on instant--you are in control, and if the competitor is moving, you simply don't proceed with the range commands, or you ensure that he knows that the start position is, etc. This also plays into 10.2.6, and since the competitor was not moving at the start signal, it's not creeping, either. It's simply a false start.

Chrono will be built into the time slot for another stage. There are 12 stages listed on the matrix.

Here's the information I received from Ken Nelson, in St. George: Ammo may be shipped here: ℅ Blair Cooper Western Arms & Ammo Company 1478 S. 270 E. - Ste. 2A St. George, UT 84790 O – 435-628-1254 C – 269-365-6100 They have an FFL, but if you want to ship a gun, please call them first.

We are currently working on arrangements to receive and distribute shipped ammo. As soon as details are finalized, we'll post them on the Nationals web page.

I am changing the match schedule to the following: Shoot the entire match: In one day, all day Friday In one day, all day Saturday In a half-day format, either Saturday morning or afternoon, finishing up Sunday morning. Staff will shoot on Thursday, with a limited number of competitors and/or vendors able to shoot that day as well. The schedule should be up on the Area 4 match website soon. I've attached it here as well. Squadding will open in the next week or so; I have some more entries to process and a few details to tie down. Troy Area4SquadSchedule_New.pdf

June 10th for Production Nationals. The May 28 deadline is for the back to back Handgun Nationals. I'll see if I can get the information changed on the web page.

I will, but I'm sort of in the dark on that match right now. As soon as I can find something, I'll post it. Troy

I can shed a little light on the scheduling questions, but not for match hotel or most transportation questions. The shooting days for the back to back handgun nationals are Monday, September 23 through Wednesday, September 25 for the Limited Nationals, and Friday, September 27 through Sunday, September 29 for the Open/L10 Nationals. Registration for each match will be on the day before shooting starts, so Sunday the 22d for Limited, and Thursday, the 26th for Open/L10. Thursday, the 26th will also be turn around day for stages, so the range will be closed to competitors for a while that morning. Registration has opened at 1 pm in the past, so make your travel plans accordingly. Awards for each match will be on the last day of shooting, in the evening, location TBD. Location for registration is not set yet, but if there is adequate space for it at the range, that would be my preference. However, as soon as I know where registration will be, I'll post it here and on the Nationals web page. The range will be open to competitors on registration day, at whatever time registration opens. We plan to use the 3 day, 1/2 day shooting schedule that we've used in the past, rotating stages in sets rather than progressing down the line. That system has seemed to work well for the past couple of matches. The range in St. George is more compact than the range in Vegas, so travel between stages should not be an issue. As information becomes available about parking around the range, I'll make it available. Round count: last year's match was 428 rounds. I expect about the same this year, and I'd bring at least 200 over that. We will make some arrangement for shipping ammo to the range or a local person willing to accept and handle it. Again as soon as that's available, it'll be on here and the web page. That's too much to carry on an airplane--against regs, and there is a pile of paperwork associated with it. UPS does a good job shipping ammo, though. Match Hotel: At present, USPSA is talking to hotels in the area. As soon as a deal becomes available, I'll post it. Hope this helps.

This. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Not a legal stage. Troy

Hi Troy, just a question on your statement above...how do we not follow a host range safety rule if they are the ones allowing us to shoot our matches at their range. For example, my host range has rules and set legal precedents for shooters intentionally shooting/destroying property (props included). If a shooter "takes a shortcut" and decides to intentionally shoot a prop to activate a swinger or open a port, could that be considered an FA action or DQ(such as Unsportsmanlike) or would we just ignore it since it's not in our rulebook and risk our own punishment? Would the rule 3.3 (Applicability of Rules) come into play at all or is that only for legal mag restrictions, etc.? Not getting off topic as this applies directly to the OP's question. Thanks for the help... I'm not sure I understand your question completely, but there are several of our rules that cover this kind of situation. While shooting a prop is not, in and of itself, a DQ, firing a shot when there is no target visible would be, under 10.4.6, or 10.5.10 possibly. But as Flex stated, good course design can prevent a lot of this. You could certainly declare it a Forbidden Action, and even a DQ under 10.6.1 (seems to me that "don't shoot that prop to activate..." are reasonable directions. I realize that some host ranges put certain restrictions on the USPSA clubs that use their facilities; effort has to be made to comply with those restrictions while still staying within the USPSA rule book, otherwise you are not running a USPSA match.

I can address a couple of those questions. Last year was indeed an Area match, and the fee was $165. That match was required to be a level III match, which in turn requires a slightly higher activity fee be paid to USPSA. There were some Area 4 match funds left from 2011, (before I was area director), and those were given to the Gator match in the form of a check, for their use to produce the match. Those monies (a little over $900) were used to offset the cost of range fees and USPSA fees, but I'm sure that it wasn't enough to cover all of that. This year, they are still faced with paying the range use fee and level II activity fees, and as you are probably aware, everything else has gone up as well--that means hotel rooms for the staff they need to house, the free jambalaya for competitors, and prizes. The match fee increased by $10 for 2013. I don't believe that's unreasonable, and is certainly not an indication of any nefarious plot on the part of the match organizers. I am confident that any money in excess of covering the expenses and seeding the 2014 match will be placed right back on the prize table, or put to other good use to support the match. This year's Area 4 match is being held in a different location, with different costs associated with producing the match, hence the $150 entry fee. I really don't get why a $10 increase caused any comment at all--the Gator match is always a class act, with a superb prize table, and people that run it professionally. To insinuate that something is wrong with this is indeed pot-stirring, especially if you won't be attending. It's obviously not a problem for the competitors who filled the match in just under 4 days.

Here it is. Why don't you get Front Sight? Club Support Many years ago, there was a Louisiana politician named John J. McKeithen, whose campaign slogan was “Won’t you help me?” Lately, I’ve heard USPSA members and clubs saying the same thing, sometimes along the lines of “What is USPSA doing to help me?” USPSA has been lacking in many areas of member and club support for too long, but changes are coming. Please allow me to introduce myself: My name is Troy McManus, and I will be working as the USPSA club liaison. This means that I will be working with USPSA as a facilitator for sections, clubs, and members seeking help. We are brainstorming ideas regarding exactly how to supply that help, but I think the possibilities are vast. Why me, you ask? Well here are a few reasons: I have about 25 years of USPSA experience, ranging from club operation and section matches to Area Director and National Championship production. In fact, you could call USPSA my avocation for the past 25 years. I love the organization and want to see it grow and prosper, and with new leadership in key spots, this is an opportune time to take the next step and grow the organization. My current NROI certification is Range Master Instructor, and I’ve enjoyed teaching since 2001. I’ve also served as Range Master for most of the Handgun Nationals over the last 12 years or so. I recently retired, and will be able to devote much of my time to USPSA. What’s in the job description, you ask? Here are a few key things, but this is by no means an exclusive list. I’m sure that once we get this ball rolling, there will be many other things to address. Beginning with the idea that there should be more than a classification system and slots for activity credits, we want to expand USPSA’s reach to help solve problems and/or form new clubs and sections. We’d also like to encourage clubs to join the USPSA fold, especially in the Steel Challenge area. We want to partner USPSA with our many vendors and sponsors, providing some discount for consumables in exchange for advertising discounts in Front Sight and the web page. For example, we have recently reached an agreement with Safariland to provide 50% discount cards to new and renewing members. If you are a Life member, don’t despair; we are looking into a suitable reward for your commitment as well. Communication is a key element in all of these endeavors, so I’ll maintain a blog on the USPSA web page, as well as publish an article in each Front Sight. Suggestions for articles are always welcome; I plan to cover topics such as volunteer involvement, club politics, rules issues, match operations, and USPSA history, to start. Because the quality of our matches is a hallmark of USPSA, keeping them in the public eye will be one of my endeavors, and that applies to all matches, from Nationals to the smallest Section championship. Steel Challenge and Multigun matches are just as important, and will receive equal attention. I’ll work with match directors to smooth the sanction process, make sure their match gets publicized, and that the sponsors that donate to the prize table get properly thanked and recognized. Good matches have good officials, so promoting and helping arrange NROI Range Officer seminars will be one of my duties. Along with training new range officers, I’ll help RO’s at all levels maintain their certification, whether it’s working with tests or work requirements. RO seminars at a reduced cost in exchange for activity credits will also be one of the items on my to-do list. Our Women’s and Junior programs are growing, and I’ll work to organize, promote, and increase the number of shooting camps for both. Publicizing these camps, as well as the scholarship opportunities USPSA presents will be important part of my duties. I’ll also work to bring in more sponsors for these camps. I welcome your comments and suggestions—I can’t help you if I don’t know what you need. You can contact me at: mactiger@eatel.net, or by phone at (225) 205-4797.

First off, supine shooting is not prohibited by rule, and in fact 1.1.5 specifically denies the ability to dictate shooting positions or stances. OK, you say, we get that, but it was announced as a Forbidden Action. I suppose I can see the logic behind that, but one poster on here suggested it was more of a local rule--which again is not allowed. I've seen a lot of people shoot supine without issue, so it would not be a problem for me. There are rules to cover all the things they might sweep getting into that position. I guess my point here is that just because you don't like it doesn't necessarily make it unsafe. And, I hate the Forbidden Action thing altogether, because it's not used correctly most of the time, IMO. As for spectators shouting "Stop", if it's for a legitimate safety concern that the RO hasn't seen (someone downrange, kids running loose, stray photographer), or operational issue, such as a popper going down with the wind, then I don't have a problem with it. What I do have a problem with, and where many spectators should keep quiet, is for procedural or perceived safety issues that aren't there. If this competitor was going to commit a forbidden action, there was no reason for a spectator to yell stop. Likewise, if you are in a position where you think the 180 is broken, but the RO has not called it, or even blinked, keep quiet.

I think Flex already answered the question. One thing to keep in mind is that objects placed downrange tend to get shot from time to time. White cardboard does not a no-shoot make. Some sort of real hardcover edging might help preserve your walls without adding in penalties for errant shots that nick the edge of the wall. Props getting shot is more of a scoring issue than it is an issue of prop preservation, in my opinion.

Legal. Kevin cited the rules.

Nah, it took me a month to decide to get back on here at all. I think if you could see from there it must have been quite impressive!

Jealousy is such an ugly emotion, Chuck.

If you aren't calling it a USPSA or IPSC match, then you are free to use whatever rules you want. If you are calling it a USPSA match, then you are, by definition, required to follow the rules. What I don't get is that if it's not a USPSA match, why are you bothering to ask about USPSA rules here? Close doesn't matter if you aren't following all of the rules. Paper plates and tape lines are not legal within our rules. Neither is disallowing a loaded sight picture, despite the perception. I'm all for burning gunpowder, and I understand the realities of dealing with boards and multi-discipline clubs (I think it's dumb that all shooters can't just get along, but that's a whole other discussion). So if you want to call it a practical match, or a practice session, then by all means go for it. But don't call it a USPSA match and then publicly announce that you "bend" the rules.

If you aren't playing by the rules anyway, then why bother to ask if this is legal?

Per the ruling, you can have a magazine in a pocket forward of the hip bone, but may not use it during the course of fire, no matter where it came from. You can carry one in your hand (or two, for that matter), but once you put them in a pocket forward of your hip bone, you may not use them during the course. This ruling was made to specifically address the issue of people taking a loader magazine from their back pocket, loading the gun, and then sticking it in their front pocket and immediately being bumped to Open. That is no longer the case, as long as any magazines in pockets forward of the hip bone, are not used after the start signal. Rule 5.2.4 is interpreted to mean that when the equipment has to start with the magazines or speed loaders in retention devices attached to the belt, for those divisions that have position restrictions of holster and other equipment, they must be in compliance with Appendix D item 12, unless stipulated in the WSB that places them on a table or similar start and not in the retention devices for the start position. Further, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed loading devices carried in the hand after the start signal are not subject to the equipment position restrictions of Appendix D, Item 12. Production and Single Stack equipment locations are NOT intended to complicate loading before the start signal or unloading. (e.g. – a magazine may be retrieved from a front pocket to facilitate loading before the start signal or while unloading at the end of a COF without penalty). During the course of fire, after the start signal, unless stipulated otherwise in the stage procedure, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed loading devices shall be carried in retention devices attached to the competitor's belt and specifically designed for that purpose. Unless specifically prohibited in the Written Stage Briefing, a competitor may also carry additional magazines or speed loading devices in apparel pocket(s) and retrieve and use them without penalty, providing that the USPSA Handgun Rules, location of the apparel pocket does not violate the requirements of Appendix D, Item 12 (subject to the provisions of Rule 6.2.5.1). Should the division restrict the location of the magazines or speed loading devices, carrying them in apparel pocket(s) forward of the restriction point, will be allowed providing they are not removed from that apparel pocket(s) until the command “if clear, hammer down and holster”. I don't think I can make it any clearer than it already is. Carrying a magazine in your hand is one thing. Putting it in a pocket is another, and using it from that pocket yet another. The first two are OK--the last one will move you to Open.

...a dress code or you in short shorts??? Both, most likely. A kilt, on the other hand... Troy

I think I answered the "current rules" concern on another thread. It's important to note that everybody working on these things has a life and other things to do in addition to their NROI/BOD VOLUNTEER jobs. As for training the staff, it was a necessary and good thing, in my opinion, to bring them up to speed on just what USPSA is all about. They are excellent office workers, and all of them have a good work ethic. The one thing they are not is competitive shooters, or even gun owners. The training taught them some valuable things about 1) What a USPSA match/Club/Section, etc. is all about, 2) What it's like to shoot a handgun in competition, 3) what NROI does, and 4) that guns, no matter what they look like, are not bad things. I did the training. It was very much appreciated and as I said, necessary. This was something the former ED never would consider, yet it was badly needed. That's not a good thing, IMO. As a board member and an instructor, I applaud the current ED's efforts to improve the knowledge and abilities of the staff. And, she is working hard to modernize our web page and bring USPSA into the current digital age. However, that won't happen overnight. Constructive suggestions are welcomed, though, so contact her with anything you think will help, or better yet, provide the solution yourself. Improving things within the organization is a two-way street. As for the FN thing, FN complied with our current requirements to add a gun to a division. Like somebody mentioned earlier, we have to comply with IPSC regs to shoot there, which means some of our guns may not be available outside the US, but are still legal. The opposite applies as well. I don't know where the guns are available, but we have a signed statement verifying that the requisite number were produced and were available to the general public somewhere. Per our rules for Production Division, this is all that is required. The DNROI received the forms and reviewed the gun at SHOT, satisfying the requirements. If FN was delayed in production due to the current run on guns and all things related, that is understandable. We, USPSA, are bound by our rules and our agreement to accept the statement from the manufacturer. So, this gun is a done deal, and y'all might as well quit hollering about it. Nothing is going to change. As for other guns taking longer, many times that's a function of the manufacturer not providing the required information, for whatever reason. We are not in the business of hounding gun companies to provide new guns. The process for acceptance into a certain division is manufacturer driven. Troy

Doubt if we'll see that, either. Troy

I will be working on some of the changes suggested here. I know how to use most Adobe software, and there have been several reasonable suggestions made. As some of you have stated, taking over as Executive Director and bringing USPSA into this century electronically is not an easy task, simply because we were so far behind. However, rest assured that now that the audit process (this is an annual thing, done by an independent auditor) is over and successfully passed, things will start moving around. The new web guy has only been at the task for a couple of months--let him get to know the system and to take into account all the needed changes, and he'll get them done. It will take a little time, but he does new things to the web page every day, and there are a lot of internal changes that won't be obvious to the users of our web page. Let our new ED settle in a bit; I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the changes coming. I'm on the rules committee as well. We are working through some changes, but we want to be sure that we make the right changes and that any new rules are well-considered, simple, and sensible. As for the 2011 BOD rules changes, as Chuck says, they are in effect right now. And, for the record---we are not hiring a historian. That was in the minutes, because it was considered at the last board meeting, but that's all it was: a consideration. Hope this helps. Troy