SteveZ

Probably the easiest way to contact your area director is to send an email to: areaX@uspsa.org and replace the X with the number of the area that you're in.

The agenda for the next USPSA meeting is posted on the website....looks like the USPSA is heading down the road that many have speculated might happen some day. Rather than rehashing the same thing we've ALL (well, many of us) been over in the past, I'd encourage you to contact your Area Director and let them know how you feel about it. Bruce already knows how I feel about it, I've wirtten him (and Mike Voigt) many times in the past about it.....so rather than sounding like an old record, I'll just say...."Bruce, please refer to my past comments on the issue"

Thanks for the input Flex and Jake. I guess I'll have to just wait and see what happens. I'm hoping that Jake is right and since I'm a Master in L10, it will get counted without having to jump through hoops and getting others involved.

...and on STI's website...its just buried and a little difficult to locate: http://www.stiguns.com/cart/aboutmags.html

So I shot this one today.... down 2 points in 5.00 seconds shooting Limited...which calculates to 100+ but wait....will it count? See...for YEARS I shot Limited 10 until this year when I switched over to Limited....while shooting L10, I made Master....but in Limited, I've got a bunch off old runs (from 98 before there WAS a L10 Division). So in Limited I'm ranked as an A Class shooter (and if you look at my actual percentage...its more like B from all my old runs...which I've been bumping off the bottom). Recently, I've been posting some Master class runs in classifiers. So the USPSA has the 15% thing....since I'm technically A class in Limited (or M classed in L10), will this 100% run get counted or is it going to get booted for being too high?

I got a better idea....get rid of prize tables entirely and make everything plaques/trophys! Doing this will get rid of the "mercenary factor". Prize tables based on random draw have their problems (example TT winning at Area 1 and having his name called near the bottom), prize tables based on class promotes sandbagging...and prize tables based on OA finish disregards the entire class system all together. So dump the prize table and remember why we got involved in IPSC to begin with. How many here decided to start shooting IPSC because there was a prize table and they could potentially win something from it.......a show of hands please?

I've tested the Precision 185gr against the MB 180 and noticed very little difference (if any) between the two. Both had zero leading, both produced the same amount of smoke (tested with Titegroup powder...the Precision may have smoked a little more than MB's) and both were very accurate.

+1000 to that. Shooting is supposed to be something we do for fun!

I think Ron's right. I went looking at recent club match scores for a "well known range in Arizona..... " and saw some of the times of some of the best well known shooters out there...and their "on demand performance" on this one was typically two classes lower than their present classifications. I'm afraid that either the USPSA picked one run on this to set the HHF...or that the HHF was determined by cherry picking a bunch of runs until a really high one was achieved.

about how long ago did you do that experiment? I've been shooting MasterBlaster bullets for some time now. When I was shooting L10, I was loading a 200gr MB over Clays powder and ran into some leading problems. That was about last year at this time. I've recently switched guns and am now shooting Limited with an STI Edge. I'm running the 180gr MB with Titegroup. As previously mentioned, Tom doesn't (or maybe I should say "didn't") recommend fast powders with MasterBlaster bullets. However I've found Titegroup to work extremely well with the bullets. I talked to Tom about this (and his recommendation against fast powders) and Tom told me that he's made dramatic improvements in the poly coating to the point that they're not as powder sensitive as they've been in the past. I believe it based on my testing. I'm getting very little smoke and no leading with a powder (Titegroup) that others have claimed problems with in the past. So, moral of the story is...don't be afraid to try a faster powder with it....because it may work great...and you'll never know until you try it.

Last weekend I had a chance to shoot a prototype stage for the 2007 Area 1 Championship that looked similar to the one Chris shot. The shooter starts on a wobbly platform with a barricade and a port in front of them....there is a door on the port. When the shooter engages a particular popper, the port door opens...and both texas stars start spinning (they've got weights on them to start the spin). For anyone planning on shooting A1 in 2007...your gonna love this one!

Sounds like you did good Chuck! +1 on figuring out a better way to solve the stage. I agree...there's nothing in the rule book prohibiting this....if the targets comply...and you can see them....you can shoot them. Either the written WSB needs to address the problem...or the course designer needs to address the problem. Until then...have at it!

I wasn't there so I don't know what the COF looked like, but if the COF didn't specify "open door THEN engage T1" or "step on bear trap THEN engage T1" or "T1 must be activated prior to engagement" then theres' no problem....but wait. Maybe there is! 4.2.4.4 says that "Hard cover must not completely obscure the highest scoring zone on a partially hidden paper target." I guessing that the target in question was obscured by hard cover and some small portion of the target (prior to engagement) may have been visible...like maybe the C or D zone? If so, then if this target is to be treated as a "static" target prior to activating it and by 4.2.4.4 it would be an illegal target...and therefore you'd be shooting an illegal stage. The RM has 3 choices here; 1) toss the stage (2.3.4) or fix the stage and 2) have everyone re-shoot it (2.3.3.2) or 3) continue shooting the stage for all competitors who haven't yet shot it and require that the shooter that caused the change to reshoot it also. Since everyone else shot the stage as a "legal" stage, I'm guessing from a RM's point of view, he probably would have fixed the stage and strived for option #3 and have you reshoot the stage. Of course, if the target in question wasn't obscured by hard cover....then its a different story.

oops....sorry! Your right! I miss read what you were saying earlier. I've been an RO in that situation...shoot draws and first round is in the dirt 10+ feet out...I'm pretty sure he didn't mean to do that...but there's no DQ here. I had a similar thing while RO'ing a stage at A1-2005. Shooter was engaging some low targets over a wall and moving to the left....he had just shot the required number of rounds at the targets and was looking to the left and when the gun went off....into the corner stick of the target....I thought about it for a brief instant (very brief) ... and said nothing. All he would have had to say is "I was engaging the target" .... nothing says you have to be looking at the target to engage it. In the few instances where I've DQ'ed anyone, I first make 100% sure that a DQ'able infraction has occured (as in NO doubt in my mind that it has happend)....if I'm not 100% certain (as in the above examples), I let them go.

Small technicality....you got the first part right (COF starts on with the LAMR command 8.3.1) and ends when the shooter removes his hand from the gun once placed back in the holster after the If Clear, Hammer Down phase (8.3.7.3) That IS an AD under 10.4.2 and if there is a target less than 3 meters and the shooter does it, there's no guarantee that they free of an AD. Key wording of 10.4.2 says "except when shooting at a paper target" .... if the RO deems that the shooter was not "shoot at" the target and the target was less than 3 meters, 10.4.2 would still apply....but the RO had better be 100% certain in his mind that this actually was the case.

Hi ya Bruce! I wasn't focusing on the first part of 10.5.13, I was focusing on what it defined as "loaded gun" which it says "A loaded firearm is defined as a firearm having a live round in the chamber or having a live round in a magazine inserted in the firearm. ". A gun can only become "loaded gun" if it has been "loaded" (whoa...there's some Zen stuff for ya! ) Actually my understanding is that the reload is "complete" when the shooter is back to "engaging" targets again (which I think I was told during my RO course with Troy...but I wouldn't swear to it). Case in point, say (using your definition of when the reload is complete), a shooter has the gun rotated such that the muzzle is pointing at the side berm, inserts the magazine, gets his finger on the trigger and pops one into the side berm while standing static. By your hypothetical definition of "reload" it would be complete so 10.4.3 wouldn't apply, 10.5.9 wouldn't apply...basically nothing applies....zip, zilch...nada (Isn't that a light chicken gravy???) The shooter has fired a round into the side berm (and there are no targets over there)...he not moving. There's nothing left in the rule book to DQ him under...yet we KNOW he didn't shoot at anything! In a nutshell....YUP! Except I don't think its so special. You're given the LAMR command.....when you place the magazine into the gun, you've now officially entered the "loading" part of LAMR and when the gun is placed into the holster, you've completed the "loading" part and are at the Ready part of LAMR. I hate creative interpretations too...but I think we've got the rules to cover this now...we just need a few clarification on definitions put into writting such as 1) when does reloading start and stop 2) when does loading start and stop, etc. Hey Troy.....whats your view on these two? When does reloading/loading start-stop?

Ok...what about this? 10.5 Match Disqualification – Unsafe Gun Handling Examples of unsafe gun handling include, but are not limited to: 10.5.13 Having a loaded firearm other than when specifically ordered to by the Range Officer. A loaded firearm is defined as a firearm having a live round in the chamber or having a live round in a magazine inserted in the firearm. and 10.5.9 says.... 10.5.9 Failure to keep the finger outside the trigger guard during loading, reloading, or unloading. So it would seem that after the shooter is given the LAMR and puts a loaded magazine into their gun, they're now in the phase of "loading" their gun. I'd view the period defined as "loading" as the point from which the competitor places the magazine into the gun to the point where the gun is holstered prior to the Are You Ready?.... command. (much like a COF isn't over until the competitor places the gun back in the holster and removes their hands from the gun 8.3.7.3). So it would seem to me (based on 10.5.13 and 10.5.9) that a shooter taking a loaded sight picture had better NOT get their finger in the trigger guard (regardless of the gun going off. If it does, you could add 10.4.3 to the list of DQ infractions) or they would be DQ'ed under 10.5.9/10.5.13. I don't think a competitor could try and claim 8.6.4 because 10.5.13 and 10.5.9 happened prior to the gun going "bang"

let me guess....trying to assess more then 2 hits on a no-shoot penalty target? I've seen that happen numerous times!

I like your comments so much Floyd...that I'm taking your image and using it for my new avatar...and updating my sig line! I think this stage would be a good candidate for the Level II CRO course for the part where you are required to take a bad stage and turn it into a legal course. Maybe someone should notify Amidon!

check this data out... http://www.stiguns.com/cart/aboutmags.html

I agree Bruce...I hate it when RO's make up rules on the fly to fit their "feeling"...whether it be for DQ situation...or how they interpret the "intent" of how they believe a COF should be shot. Regarding this particular problem...how about under the definitions section of the rule book, we define the act of "loading" being the point in time between the LAMR command and when the gun is holstered prior to the "are you ready"? That way, if this did happen, it would fall under 10.4.3...and still provide for room for the "false start" problem of a shooter hearing the Are-You-Ready...STBY...beeeeeep in the next bay.

Well in a nutshell, if this happened while I was a shooter, I'd probably DQ the shooter under 10.4.3 which says: "A shot which occurs while preparing to or while actually loading, reloading or unloading a handgun. This includes any shot fired during the procedures outlined in Rule 8.3.7." and rule that it happened under the "loading" part. In my mind "loading" starts at the LAMR and ends when the gun is holstered prior to the start signal. I think this would probably hold up under arbitration review.

I'm not so sure. From the rule book: Loading -- The insertion of ammunition into a firearm. Reloading -- Replenishment or the insertion of additional ammunition into a firearm. Unloading -- Removal of ammunition from a firearm. For sake of this discussion...when does "loading" end? My guess is once the magazine is completely seated and a round is chambered...the "loading" process has ended. So firing a round while taking a sight picture wouldn't be covered by 10.4.3. .... unless "loading" is interpreted to be much longer.

Here's another way of looking at it. Often times many shooters (after the LAMR) will draw, do a dry fire/sight picture sweep of the targets.....grab their loaded barney mag from their belt (because the stage requires a reload) and do it again. According to the rule book...placing a loaded magazine in a gun is considered having a "loaded gun". Hence, you're now taking a "loaded sight picture" by definition of USPSA rules.

I think thats probably a good way of summarizing it. Scoring of the "targets" (being good targets or penalty targets) is finalized by the RM...if he says you hit a no-shoot or if he says your perfect double is really a miss, or if he says your A is really a C...you can't aribtrate that. What you can abitrate is procedural penalties (I wasn't really faulting that box, I did shoot the course as described, I did shoot at the popper and shouldn't be assessed an FTE for missing it, etc).