tim_w

Lol

For dirty 22 lr I agree with the others a healthy gap is not a bad thing. It's been a very long time since I owned a 22lr revolver. Worked on a few triggers but since I was a young teen have not owned or shot one heavily. Never heard of moon clips for 22lr though...ever. As no extractor groove not sure. I guess it can be done as there could be enough tension as its such a light tiny case..maybe??. Cut with enough tension polymer to snap in the case push it flush to the rim. But given the crushed edge to ignite primer and the recessed chambers. The machine cut and mooinclip thickness would need to be precise, I would think? Just spitballing as I never considered it. Would think speedloader make much more since as on top of all the issues very few reasons to keep 22empties unless your making bullet jackets out of them etc. Cyl gap, hold cyl rearward to breech and slide feeler guage between cyl and cone.

....find any excuse to wrench on it so then you really have something to fix? I am very good at ensure new work to do 9n my guns lol But I do enjoy it and learn a lot reinventing numerous wheels. Look forward to see the effects. I would just try Thebes bullets first and see that effect then decide on the cone. As long as you take your time and polish it the only undesirable but minor change was a small drop in vel. That's what's so nice about the models that use the barrel sleeve shroud setups. It's so easy comparitively to dial in your cyl gap. Also makes it much easier to work the cone and or crown. Getting ready to pu a new model 19-9 Combat to create a new build for stock Rev IDPA. It's nice with all the SS guns these days to have a good ol tough 4140 forged revolver and with a shroud and barrel sleeve tension setup to build. Looking forward to seeing how it develops and performs. Want to mod the barrel sleeve setup to make it more user friendly to adj more like my 327 PC JM or a DW. 8 also think I have a compatible dedicated 38 spl cyl so it's shorter and lighter. No jump in the 357 cyl and a nice short snug throats. Anyways tweaks and parts I want to experiment with. Interested to see if those new bullets improve your leading. Keep the thread updated. Good kuck

I say try it. The only thing you really loose other that time machining is a cylinder a few tenths off the barrel which if you swapped back would be ease enough to file off the excess cone without pulling the barrel again and refitting. So at most you would be out the cost of a new ti cyl from S&W. Maybe a new crane? Nothing crazy. Whenever I do a project like that it would take on a life of it's own as always happens to me. I know as I already started going thru all of this in my head then pulled some paper and started drawing. Not good. Knew I was in trouble when I was adding a new barrel blank from bartlien and DLC coating at the end on the highly polished surface. Then all the cool milling that could be done to a large diameter blank. Think a proper spec'd 9mm barrel!! What to do with a barrel with a groove diameter of 0.355 and bore .0.346 oh my!?! You could machine it for just the balance/weight distribution you like. OK,gotta stop gotta stop now.....

I would spec the cyl chambers throat's exit diameter for chamber to chamber consistency and if not hone to the largest.. I would check their alignment with barrel bore and firing pin bushing hole centerlines at lockup. Checking headspace and cyl to cone gap from both sides for all chambers to ensure things are running true to under a thou is something I would do. How much movement is there on cyl rotation once cyl is lock for each chamber. If the cyl gap is not huge and it has some cyl rotation play once locked I like the 11° for more than just looks. I do like the look of it a lot. Gives it more finished higher end look. I think you loose a bit of vel but it gives a slightly more gentle angle for bullet alignment to bore centerline as it traverses the cyl to barrel especially if things need to slightly align via bullet. I also prefer to throat all my barrels similar to precision rifle chamber throat specs to fully support the bullet before gradually engaging the lands with a 1° leade. But that's a whole other level of work and ordering a one off reamer. Way nicer if your working on a 2 piece shroud and sleeve setup. If S&W offered them in more N and L frames it's all I would own new in those frames.

I find I do better with the 5" with the slide lightened etc .

Thanks guys that's what I figured. I think JM version actually has a standard full lug'd edm barrel same as the Std. It's the PC with those fungly multi color fruitloop grips that has the shorter radiused under lug and shorter length cylinder. My issue with that is replacement cylinders. You can not use the 325 ti cyl in the PC. S&W will likely run out of those shorter length PC ones much sooner given the reduced production numbers. I agree with others on the PC tuned action parts being fitted as the exception vs the rule. Regardless, for the typical competition revolver you are going to be redoing all of that regardless. Just wanted to be sure I was not missing something not overt between JM vs Std. If it was not for the 8 shot I think the 625 would be THE competition revolver with the possible exception of in Steel Challenge. Kind of hard for a 45 anything to beat a 90-100gr .355-.359 & 950-1050 fps with less than 3 gr of powder when it comes to minimal recoil.

625-8 JM vs Std: What are the actual differences? Only thing I see is grips, JM engraving, SS vs black trigger/hammer. Am I missing something? If a person is looking to setup for IDPA is there a reason to go with the JM over Std if the later is cheaper? Plan to be going thru the action and tuning up for comp action and cyl prep. The JMs have been so prevalent and popular I honestly have not handled a std 4" 625-8. Have some older versions with 5" and a 325pd. But every 625 I have seen of late has been a JM or PC. Wanted to be sure if I happen to find a great deal on a std I am not missing out on something critical from the JM version.

@TomJerry1 How much end shake does your cyl have? I was just thinking that the revolvers I see having bullet walk the worst seem to have at a bit more end shake. Just a thought but maybe nothing.

Any idea what alloy S&W uses? Do you think the aftermarket f4acture issues are a lack of proper ht or a less ideal alloy? For such a small piece not overly complex machining it would seem they could use one for the much tougher high Impact resistant alloys.

That's for sure. I tend to expect to recut both on any gun I am trying to get max accuracy. Along with cylinder work etc. Everything is a legos style parts gun it seems. Not hand fitting at all and constantly trying to reduce costs by cutting corners. On the brass rod I was thinking...would heating it help easy the hydraulic force needed. I picture bracing it off the cone frame with a delrin or wood fixture. Then using a piloted bras rod using my hydraulic press to slowly form it into the barrel. How deep do you think is needed......0.50 - 0.75"? Guess I will find out what S&W trq their barrels to when I go to break it loose. I know looking at S&W parts they do use shims behind those barrel at times to get gap set. I like to run min cyl gap spec @ 0.003 with a trued cyl face. With the barrel off I can more precisely cut the forcing cone angle and the throat and leade. Get it polished up. For that, I need to gain 0.005 to the cone. I may have to take a couple thou off the shroud muzzle end to use the original barrel if it's not shimmed at all. I could pu a 6" barrel liner and cut and thread it. Machine a recess into the shroud and run a Dan Wesson style barrel nut. I wish S&W made those 500sw recessed barrel nuts in other sizes. I like those and could make a bit to fit the lobe pattern. Have to see what I am dealing with as I have time in the shop to work on it.

Yes sir with inline changes I would not be surprised if there were upwards of 5 unofficial versions. But the one you want is the one that has that little tab on the inside of right side control tab. It was the final version change that I am aware of to push the trigger bar over for a more positive reset. What made it really confusing for those that did not have part numbers is some sellers would list it as a gen 3 but it did not have the tab. Even now some sites have the correct gen 3 yet their pic is of a gen 2. When they first came out they were very rare to find on sale as SW was restricting sale to listed armorer only. Now every part is available yet S&W keeps the same tune. I would be very interested to hear their rational on how a MP slide stop assembly is manf only install yet they will send you a new bare cylinder and extractor for a revolver (if you give them the serial number) that actually does take skill and knowledge to properly fit. But a part that is as simple as knocking a few pins out pulling parts and reversing is too complex?? Just part of supporting the dumbing down of the populous I guess..

How does S&W remove the 2 piece barrel & shroud on the 66. The barrel has a non threaded flange at the muzzle end compared to others that have a recessed nut or comp as an external nut? Is it a fitting that matches the rifling at the muzzle end? Can not imagine putting a hard fitting against the rifling especially at the crown of all places. I have seen the removed barrels but not the tool. I greatly prefer a nut as it allows more adj for cone work/headspace etc. If the new barrelnis setup without a space washer then you have no way to decrease headspace or clean why S&W could not just keep it simple and universal No recessed cone. A simple barrel nut and threaded on both ends, simple. The way my 327 JM or 500SW Lew Horton PC are setup makes for easy adj and replacement. Versus this

Maybe a weak spring in the slide stop dent thing. Just file down the bump and radiusing the tab where it is captured by the slide notch.

I am waiting to see when the TS 2 Deep Bronze makes it over here. I have to assume it will given all the other such versions have i.e all the other Orange versions. Also nice to see that it does come with a standard slide lock assembly but also just the pin. Looks weird in all the promos with that square hole just empty. Not sure what the marketing team was thinking putting it out there like that. I have seen numerous shots of it for sale in Europe with the lever. I really like the reduced grip size of the frame even with I have to think CZ Customs will find a way to get a batch in.

Oh I agree tools are meant to be used but to spend say 1800 for a base gun I would just not want to do that. A gun like that would be a rec gun. But I do find for major I shoot better using larger bore heavy and slower using the fastest powder that will keep peak pressure within reason. For IDPA ESR a nice 625. Swap in a 325 Ti Cyl. Do my normal prep to the gun: Check/Adjust: Cyl square faces,, Timing, Stop,, Headspace, cyl gap,, end shake,, extractor rod and crane alignment etc.. Stuff you really should not have to address.. The usual trigger work. Cleanup the cyl chamber throats so they are all the same, chamfer and polish .Recut the cone throat 5 tenth over bore and 1.5° leade so the bullet of choice just kisses the rifling when its base is level with the inside edge of the cone radius. Dent ball for cyl open Load up coated 230s RN 3.7gr N310. Fed Primer 690-700fps. Ready to go.

@matteekay Very good points. I agree the 646 would be the better choice but good luck finding one. If you did would you really want to beat up a gun with such low production numbers, especially the PC, competing with it. I know some guys that have looked for ones for quite some time and they go for very $$. The PC had a Ti cyl.

Looking at various pics and my assembles in my different MP 1.0s and the fact there were technically 3 different generationsof slide stop assemblies. Each with slight changes. Here is my opinion: That's the MP 1.0 gen 1 on the left. If you look next to the tab that locks into the slide notch there is a small notch cut out of the main bar. Also notch how the control tab is a part of the main bar stamping and bent into place but with no welded supporting brace capping the bend. It's missing that separate piece welded like the one on the right. The gen 1 were known to have issues with the tab fracturing at the bend so they added that support cap. Down below is an image from Brownells of a gen 1. It's the wrong orientation but you can see the notch cut out like the one on the left above and the offset. I think the one with the broken spring on the right is a gen 2. Notice how the stop tab and and tab that captures the spring end are inline with each other, not offset like a gen 1. But look at the tab that captures the slide.. look at its shape.. It's just regtangulare and the tab end squared off.. Now look below at the pic of the gen 3 again from Brownells. Notice how it has a angle cut and then a triangular tip even more so than the gen 1. The gen 3 also has the famous bump on the inside of the right side control tab(thumb side for lefties) that ensures the trigger bar has tension pushing it to the left. Giving the trigger a more tactile reset. This area can be seen in the orientation of the pics above but I added a pic below. That bump is the easiest most conclusive way to know a stop assembly is a gen 3. While there is only recognized 3 gens of stops. I think there were small variations that were running changes. Take a look at the last image. It has no notch like a gen 1 but it does not have the slide catch tab and tab that captures the spring end inline with the catch as in the pic above gen 2. But it does have the support cap welded over the left side control tab. Most importantly it does not have the welded on bump behind the right side control tab that is the defining feature of what's considered a Gen 3. So it's a running change between first gen 2 and gen 3.. Again all of this is my opinion based on observations and the known issues and popular improvements/upgrades about the different gens. Others with more knowledge I gladly defer. To me the important improvements from the original to the final gen 3 were support cap welded to left control tab bent joint. Bump added to improve trigger reset and that same bump added support to the right side control tab bent joint. The removal of the notch by the slide lock tab likely increase rigidity to the main bar prevent deformation or stress cracking. S&W MP 1.0 Slide Assembly Gen 1 (Brownells) S&W MP 1.0 Slide Stop Assembley Gen 3 (Brownells) SW MP 1.0 Slide Stop Assembly Gen 3 (trigger bar bump top left) SW 1.0 Slide Stop Assembly Gen 2 + (running change prior to trigger bar bump tab) There is another angle of this stop that shows the control support but I had issues uploading.

Very true. I love 10mm especially in bottom feeders. 40 would work very well for IDPA Rev enhanced. It would fully clear the cyl with room to spare on extraction. I would choose to run 40 over 10 unless for some reason I could not from a supply issue.. Ruger is certainly an option but S&W does make the 610 in a 4" IIRC. With 40 it would have the same benefit as 45 acp, except there is no rimmed case option, admittedly a more costly one if you wanted to be able to run SSR or ESR. But 40 is superior to 38/357 in ESR as there is no short case that can make major and fully clear the cyl. Only real negative I could think of for 40 in ESR is lack of a Ti cyl option, so a bit more maintenance and a bit shorter cyl service life. Just take the time to learn to fit your own cyl and stop.

Different versions of frame and sear block. It's why there are different versions of the sear blocks. If they are the same versions the only difference I can see between the 45 and 9-40 sear blocks is the ejectors. Here is one from the same gen but has the mag disconnect. But it has the extended pin head and the frame body relief.

5" really only adds benefit with irons as you have the increased sight radius. With a RDS there is little benefit. Now in open the extra barrell length would add vel for 9mm major as with a aftermarket threaded barrel for a add on comp your at 6" so less peak pressure to make major equals longer life. But in CO minor only not so much.

You guys might want to plug in your bullet or one of same weight and your velocity into JDM Ballistic Calculator. Any of you that are rifle shooters especially if you shoot long range as I do are likely very familiar with it so this old hat. I think you will find for ranges from a few yards out to 50 yds a 15 yd zero will give you the least +/- POA/POI in elevation. As an example take a typical 115 gr 9mm @1100 fps. Between say 5 and 50 yds you would have a max of roughly ½" +/- POA/POI evolution. Just aim dead on. For a max point blank range zero within a 2" variance in elevation +/- you could zero at 8yd which is also a 76yd zero and have a range of 0-90 yds and only be off by 2" of +/-. Most people unfamiliar with shooting LR with handguns would nit believe that lol. Playing with a ballistic calculator can be interesting even with handguns. For those that do n I t know JDM is a goto for free online ballistic calculators JDM Ballistic Calculators

Yep as long as it does not create a safety issue then for someone competing for fun / rec it's only a game. Not sure how they would handle a WML that was functional at the start of a course of fire and failed during. Got figure at some point someone's light has had to go out at a match during a course of fire. I would think you would have to remove it before the next stage if you were not put into open but not sure.

Yeh 8 shot cylinders are just not practical for IDPA. But just to put this too bed for good....9mm is not allowed in Revolver Division. In Stock Revolver there is no moon clips, speed loaders only so 9mm is out regardless. In Enhanced Revolver where moon clips are allowed minimum cartridge gun is 357 and you can not use 9mm in those guns even if you reamed the cylinder as only 38 special and 357 mag are allowed in a 357 marked Revolver. You will notice its not one of the listed cartridges in the latest 2017 rules. Smallest is 38 special. For IDPA the best choice outside 357/38 is 45 acp IMO. No issue finding 45 acp cases cheaper and more plentiful than 38/357/38 short. You tech could even shoot it in stock Rev using 45 auto rim. But lost brass that is more costly but still an option. A nice 625JM fits nicely. Be creative and pu a 325pd Ti cylinder and you have a very sweet setup you can also use in ICORE even if not ideal barrel length.

Sometimes because of tolerances on the MP frame it can take some force to line up the set screw hole. If you try to force the screw you will cross thread and ruin the plates threads. This is the reason they added to disclaimer on returns; "they will not be accepted with damaged threads". Use a punch, pin, nail, icepick, etc to leverage the the holes to align them before installing the screw. If it's too tight at most very minor fitting most anyone should be able to do. If you want a perfect fit do a bit of blending.